Does anyone have some tips (or links) to set up a “stiffer” strat style trem?
I’ve recently moved from a solid bridge guitar and struggling with the “mushy” feeling of the strat trem. Mostly my bends are starting to feel better, but the vibrato is awful (especially the high e string). I want to stiffen the bridge without upsetting its current close to decked balance.
It only has 3 springs, should I buy more? Screwing in the screws doesn’t do too much. How far should I put them in?
Thanks in advance
Steve
I decked my strat adding two more springs in a thread here Decking the strat
There’s some good discussion in that thread.
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the trem stiffness is directly related to the string gauge. If you want a stiffer trem, you would need to go with larger strings - which defeats the purpose of easing up on the bend pressure.
Mechanically, I have wondered why trem designers didn’t use an opposing spring to allow for easier string gauge changes without making the trem system be so far out of ideal. But, this is a different soapbox…
You need to either accept the soft trem or block/deck your trem and go with a lighter string to soften the bending. I blocked mine so it was fairly neutral rather than deck it and need to adjust the string height on the bridge: NGD: Strandberg Boden Prog NX6 - #19 by sequences
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It drives me crazy to hear it referred to as a “tremolo bar” when it doesn’t do tremolo, it does vibrato. The mis-naming makes it seem like guitarists understand so little theory that they don’t know the difference.
That said, mine has five springs, and I’ve never attached the bar. It stays in tune like a rock.
Perhaps you misunderstand.
I’m currently unhappy with my vibrato skill (my fretting hand action on the strings). Largely due to differences after moving to a strat style bridge and the completely different feel compared to the hardtail bridge. I hardly touch the the trem bar - or should we call it a whammy? 
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That I can’t help you with. I have zero fretting hand vibrato skill. I’ve tried and can’t do it at all.
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Some strats don’t take well to having the trem system blocked off in terms of tone. String bending and vibrato varies according to string gauge and the neck scale; strings on a Fender scale neck are tighter than on a shorter Gibson scale neck for example. You just have to learn to adapt to the variances.
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1st, I 'm no expert on bending or vibrato.
However in my lame attempts for them moves, I do go between a hardtail and a 2 pt. floating trem bridge.
I’ve never really considered much the difference though I’m for sure aware of it as I can literally see the trem bridge starting to dive (as if I were using it, but I’m not) as I bend a string or two.
I just kinda figured it was just a matter of bending the string more to compensate for the trem bridge diving.
For my 2 pt. trem. I can’t see tightening the the trem claw mounting screws doing to much. The way I see it. my trem bridge is designed to be parallel with the deck. I screw the claw screws in to much and the bridge goes out of parallel with the deck. If I went heavier strings, I’d have to screw the claw screws in further to compensate for the heavier strings. But I still got to have the bridge parallel with the deck. So nothing much accomplished by heavier strings. Same would be true going to lighter strings except I’d have to loosen the claw screws to keep the bridge parallel.
So, my assumption is that I just have to bend the string further to compensate for the bridge dive.
I think It’s just gonna be a matter of practice of going between the 2 styles of bridges.
I practice bends on my my hardtail and my trem bridge. My only goal is to bend to pitch, how far I have to bend to achieve proper pitch. To me, it’s not much extra bend so while I know the trem bridge is diving, my ears let me know I gotta bend just a shade more to compensate.
fwiw, I’m going between a Reverend Double Agent W (wilkenson 2 pt. trem.) and a Casino (trapeze tail as opposed to hardtail). I also bend and try to do vibrato on my acoustic w/.011’s. Much harder to do than either of the electrics. I assume due to the .011s. My electrics have .010s.
Perhaps it’s a matter of using 2 or 3 fingers on the one string to get the extra force to make the bend/vibrato on the trem bridge?
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Settings up a floating trem system is relatively simple, once you understand a few key elements.
It’s a matter of balance, like kids on a seesaw trying to arrange themselves so it balances out perfectly horizontal.
One side of that equation is the force/pull of the strings, trying to pull the trem system forward. The amount of force depends on: 1. string gauge you use, 2. tuning
To counter that force you have the springs going from the trem block to the trem claw. They pull on the trem system, forcing the bar upwards. The amount of force depends on: 1. The amount of springs installed, 2. How stretched they are at rest position (adjusted by claw screws).
Changing any of these variables: (ex. string gauge, tuning or amount of springs) requires you to re-tweak the trem setup. Most often by adjusting the fourth variable, the claw screws. If you need the spring side of things to exact MORE force, then you need to tighten the screws… if you need it to exact LESS force you loosen the screws.
Examples: you want to use lighter strings, and change nothing else in your setup => the “string side” of the seesaw now exact less force, and so must the “spring side”… so you loosen the claw screws a bit.
You want to change from standard tuning to Eb tuning? Same thing, the strings are less tight and exact less force. Same solution… Etc. See, quite simple really!
As for affecting the feel/stiffness of the whole system. You can tweak this via the amount of springs installed. The more springs, the stiffer the feel. However, as discussed above, in rest position you don’t want any changes in the “force equation”, so if you add in more springs you also need to loosen the trem claw screws a bit.
Teaser - this same principle, along with the use of a spacer (ex. credit card) makes it trivial to set up true floating bridges like Floyd Rose or similar… Like dead simple, anyone can do it… But that’s a topic for (perhaps) another time 
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Thanks for all the info and links everyone.
Think I’ve got a plan to try.
I’m going to add some additional springs and go with the decked set up. Hopefully I can get enough tension added to stop bends from pulling the bridge up. And I can still use the trem arm when I want and maybe start learning how to use it.
Thanks again.
I’ll follow up once I get a couple springs added.
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In this scenario you are only going to be able to push the bar down and not pull it up. Also with more springs it’s going to be harder to push down. Effectively you no longer have a floating trem which is what it was designed to be so maybe forget using it altogether. Also, as I have found and already mentioned, some Strat bodies sound dead with a locked off trem. How do I know? One guess.
So if the bridge lifting is still an issue BEND THE STRING MORE. Hendrix had no issue with it…
But Hendrix didn’t play an out-of-the-box Strat, either…
I also have a Strat with a floating bridge (with 3 springs it came with) and never noticed that bending the strings actually made the bridge move perpendicular to the body of the guitar. I’d suggest you make sure that the guitar is set up properly (by a professional luthier if needed) and then check your bending/vibrato technique. You mention that you previously played a guitar with a stoptail bridge. I assume that guitar had strings of a heavier gauge than the Strat does (Strats typically come with .009’s); playing thinner strings require a lighter touch in general, not only for bending.
In one of the JG lessons, and I think it’s the one on unison bends, Justin acknowledges that a floating bridge can put the other strings out of tune when bending so it’s a known issue. If yours doesn’t move then maybe your not bending enough or you should take yours to a luthier.
BTW none of my Strats are out-the-box and my bridge definitely moves on the one with a whammy bar…
Whatever. Whenever I bend, it’s only 1 string anyway. And I’m not a Strat expert by any means, either.
Couple of Strats with 9s. Standard three spring set up, whammy bar wound off and gathering dust, Both set up by a Pro and stay in tune and have no issue with bends, as I use my ears.
Pretty solid, so never looked at shutting things down or adding more springs. As @Kasper inferred its all about balance. Simples.
Lots of great input. Thanks!
I spent the afternoon tweaking the bridge and playing. My takeaways if you care…
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I shoulda just pulled out the screwdriver right away. It’s not hard at all to try floating vs decked. Tuning stability hasn’t been an issue at all. It’s very easy and I’m sure I can “undo” anything I mess up.
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Someone said just “bend more” and this is 100% good advice.
Coming from a hardtail guitar and jumping into BLIM with this tremelo bridge has been challenging. But I’m beginner level, so what skills do I really have anyway??? Spending a couple hours with the pattern 2 licks and full floating bridge and it’s all coming together (well… it’s better than it was lol). -
Trem bar technique? Still don’t know where this fits in and how much I want to embrace it. BLIM seems to be about developing some fundamental skills so I’m not going to start using the bar to hit notes or vibrato I can’t reach (yet) with my hands. YouTube certainly has a lot of video of Blues greats who don’t touch it.
Since all of this came about through my recent purchase of this Ibanez Andy Timmons AZ model and the BLIM development of licks and bending / vibrato… - some of you may be interested in:
Andy Timmons bending technique (not blues… but he does mention a couple of his main influences in 2nd video)
Then I fell down the rabbit hole with Robben Ford - some super nice blues https://youtu.be/xhv0xhPpzP4?si=GUQeyTfucs1pyRLc
So much of what I listened to today didn’t use the trem. Guess I’ll use it more when I’m happy with what my hands can do.
Long way to go - Lol
Cheers all!
A Unison Bend is on one string too but you hold down the target note on the adjacent string. Hendrix played these at the end of the solo in “All Along The Watchtower”. AFAIK the bridge on his Strats were not modified.
Maybe what I meant was to bend further earlier. When you bend a full tone or a tone and a half, then the other strings are going to bend too. All this is enough to raise the bridge on a floating trem quite a bit, So you have to bend further than you would on a hardtail which doesn’t shift.
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