The C Chord

[Richard_close2u]

I am catching up on a lot of Beginner topics after neglecting them for too long due to other tasks at hand.

So here is a catch-all with lots of quotes and comments.

@jjw

if you watch his hand position, he certainly isn’t playing with this thumb behind the neck. He generally plays with his thumb visible above the neck.

John - Justin repeatedly stresses through the Beginner course the necessity of keeping your thumb down behind the neck to help develop vital strength in your hand and fingers that will be needed as you progress. As Justin is not a beginner he often (and he can’t help it) defaults to a grip with thumb up higher, perhaps even a little over to mute the low E string. But he does try to check himself and restate that thumb behind is best if and when he catches himself not doing that in the video.

@jjw

angle your fingers correctly,

Good advice.

@jjw

make sure your nails are cut short

100% on that.

@Jozsef

If you’re beginner, you definitely should keep your thumb around the midline of the neck to build muscle strength for barre chords.

Yes, this is the advice Justin tries to mention whenever it is needed. He may occasionally forget to say it in a video lesson.

@jjw

I suppose there are other reasons for having beginners play with a low thumb. Maybe some teacher in the community (even Justin?) could weigh in.

Good question, here is my take.
Muting the low E is not the primary aim of making the chord. The primary aim is all to do with correct and accurate finger placement and clean sounding fretted / open string notes. If there is a string not part of the chord (low E in the C chord for example) then option 1 for beginners is to try to focus on not hitting that string in the strumming. But if option 1 is followed unsuccessfully and the low E string is accidentally strummed then no sweat, it is not a big, big deal. Option 2, but one to consider only when more confident with finger placement etc is a secondary aspect of seeking ways to backup the option 1 (don’t hit the low E string) method and that is to try to mute the low E string. But it is not easy and is not an intrinsic part of learning to play the chord from the first step. It can come after if and only if a beginner has got to grips (excuse the pun) with the actual substance of the chord itself. The thumb behind facilitates and allows the fingers to form the chord from that first step so is not a detriment nor is it less than optimal.

@LunaRocket

I had to rotate my arm at the elbow to get my wrist in a better position which also helped with a few other chords and made things much more comfortable.

Can you achieve the same result by slightly altering the guitar position and angle of the neck?

@LunaRocket

I checked out where my thumb was, for the C chord it’s definitely behind the neck pointing toward the headstock.

Ah … behind is good, pointing to the headstock is not.

@andreschiavon

do you think your fingers were getting used to be stretched with time and practice? Or it’s more a matter of finding the right angle for your fingers?

Your fingers will develop more stretch over time (are you using the stretch exercises for beginnres?) and angle of neck and fingers makes a difference.

@LunaRocket

if I can just get my ring finger a little closer to the 6th string I can mute it. But so far when I do, I don’t have enough pressure on the 5th string to have it ring out.

It is not a question of pressing harder - you do not want to apply more pressure down on the string as it will sound sharp, it is about a micro adjustment to your finger placement.

ps
The action of your guitar looks high. See how far above the fretted note the open E string is sitting? That will be adding to the difficulty of muting with a small touch. It will be adding the difficulty of everything.
Look at this image. I have added some white arrows to show what I mean. Some small adjustments to your neck relief (truss rod) and your bridge & saddle heights will help lower that. If you’re unsure, ask in the Gear section.

@Roland1911

I do not understand how “muting” with my ring finger is possible. All I can do is (at best) fret the E string.

If the muting is achieved to the detriment of the actual chord formation then do not worry about it. It is secondary. Chord formation takes 100% precedence over add-ons. Once you improve your chord formation the muting will come easier.

@Tbushell

I’m fretting the A string while just touching the E string with my fingertip.

Good advice all round. It does look a little like your fingers are on top of the fret wire but I assume that is optical illusion otherwise your notes would not sound clean. They are also somewhat perpendicular as @jjw observes.

@ScorpioBG

Is this appropriate and it is a good approach to know or it is better to follow the course instructions precisely (using regular C).

When a song (or your ears) want a Cadd9 rather than a regular C then all is good.
But on many occasions you will want and need regular C so do not neglect it and leap to something almost the same that you find easier.

@andreschiavon

this is getting harder as time passes

Andre, your fingers 2 & 3 are still a little too perpendicular to the neck and your 4th finger needs to be hugging the others much closer - not pushed far away like a lonely child.

Try rotating the wrist of your fretting hand a small amount. In the pic above, the rotation would be to make your three fretting fingers also rotate a small amount anti-clockwise as we look at them from the front, angling them into the frets more. See the screenshot from Justin’s video lesson posted here.

@jewrocks

The reason C is the hardest for me is that I’ve empaphised (still without success) muting the 6th string
… how important is it to create this habit of muting the 6th for C

A long way down in a secondary position.
Making the chord, good formation and sound clean is #1 priority above all else.

[jewrocks]

Thanks

It’s the ring finger that is either muting 2 strings (6th and 4th) because id need to flatten my ring finger enough to touch the 6th this is, at the same time, causing the 4th tj be muted
(think about the G chord where the A is muted, same happens here with the D)

Or I’m not muting at all

Either or is easy for me
Flatting my finger = muting both
Tipping my finger in the A = no muting all all

Doing both seems a hairline of an angle tj me
Flag enough but still tipping

So I’m getting here mixed answers as to what to prioritize

• continue trying somehow to perfect r C with muting
  Ot just ignore the 6th string muting thing

Not sure

[MorseMooseGreyGoose]

Hi @jewrocks

@Richard_close2u is a guitar teacher approved by Justin so I would go with his advice anytime there are mixed messages from the community. He has suggested ignoring the muting and to just focus on the chord itself.

[Notter]

Hey Josef, having seen Richard’s very comprehensive response please follow his advice and ignore mine!! He is absolutely an expert, I absolutely am not

I will wish you the very best and I hope we see a future post from you that says “I’ve cracked C chord!”.

[LunaRocket]

@Richard_close2u

Can you achieve the same result by slightly altering the guitar position and angle of the neck?

I have since been able to angel the guitar away from my body, i.e., flatter against me so I don’t see the fret board as easily for the 8 open chords and it has made things easier, YAY me that I don’t have to stare at the fretting hand as often. I also think I need a new strap because mine seems to keep loosening up changing the guitar position. (Maybe I’ll just a safety pin next to the buckle.)

@Richard_close2u

Ah … behind is good, pointing to the headstock is not.

I checked my thumb position while playing yesterday and am happy to report it’s no longer pointing toward the headstock; it seems to have rotated more towards the fret board now.

@Richard_close2u

It is not a question of pressing harder - you do not want to apply more pressure down on the string as it will sound sharp, it is about a micro adjustment to your finger placement.

Yup, I finally figured that out.

Thanks for checking in with all us newbies, Richard, I know you’d been ill for a while and got backlogged with everything else going on. You need to clone yourself!

[Richard_close2u]

@LunaRocket

You need to clone yourself!

Haha thanks Rebecca - I think one of me is enough, perhaps more than enough on some days !

[jjw]

Hey @Richard_close2u,

Thanks for following up, it’s great to get your take.

@Richard_close2u

John - Justin repeatedly stresses through the Beginner course the necessity of keeping your thumb down behind the neck to help develop vital strength in your hand and fingers that will be needed as you progress. As Justin is not a beginner he often (and he can’t help it) defaults to a grip with thumb up higher, perhaps even a little over to mute the low E string. But he does try to check himself and restate that thumb behind is best if and when he catches himself not doing that in the video.

The thing is, though, this is a video teaching beginners how to play the C chord. It’s not, say, a song tutorial where he slips into his old habits. He’s literally teaching beginners how to play the C chord. And he teaches it with the thumb over the top.

He may say it elsewhere, but here he doesn’t advocate playing this chord with the thumb behind and he certainly doesn’t do it. Actually, he does do it, but only when he’s demonstrating how NOT to play the chord! (He never mentions the thumb at all in this video, I don’t think).

I would love to get @JustinGuitar 's explicit take on thumb position for the C chord. For me, this could be a case of “Do as I do, not as I say”. (!)

[willhagan]

Question, why use the ring finger for the A string instead of using the pinky?

[stitch]

Welcome to the forum Will.
Using the plinky on the A string when playing a C chord will restrict playing chord extentions and playing embellishments. The only time you should use the pinky on the A string is when playing a C/G chord

[Richard_close2u]

Hello @willhagan and welcome to the community.
Exactly as @stitch says - what may seem an easy quick-win shortcut is a long-term handicap for progressing and being more musical with embellishments and movement with and from the chord.

[Jack255]

Sorry I have been off for a while . My problem is, I can’t spread my fingers far enough apart when they bent for playing the chords. Still working on this.

[jjw]

@Jack255 , you don’t need to spread your fingers apart. Look at the picture of Justin on the video posted above. His fingers are right next to each other. They are able to reach the various frets because they are positioned at an angle.

[aliomenti]

I’m also struggling with the C chord during song practice. I’m on module 6, I moved on from module 5 because I was getting 55-65 changing from Am to C and C to Em. I find when my hand gets tired I struggle to reach the A string with my ring finger, so I miss the first beat. Chord perfect is fine and I get all strings ringing out, apart from the muted E string. I’m now getting about 40 changes doing C to D and G to C in module 6 but it falls to pieces with repetitive C changes during song practice. I think it’s just hand strength and muscles for the C chord that aren’t necessary for other chords that I need to strengthen. Looking at my hand and wrist position, it seems to be similar to what Justin is doing.

[CarlosAP]

Same thing happens to me! I can do almost 60 chord changes per minute from C to G and Am but when it comes to play a song my fingers don’t go where they’re supposed to. I know this one it’s gonna take longer than the other ones and that’s ok

[Yossarian7]

I am curious, Justin suggests in playing Dm chord to use 4th finger instead of the 3rd, why not do the same for the C chord?
Personaly, I started playing Dm chord with the 4th finger but when started playing the C chord, I switched to the 3rd finger because now it makes it easier after I learned C chord.

[Richard_close2u]

Hello @Yossarian7 and welcome to the community.

For C you need to only think about using 3rd finger - as a long term investment it will reap rewards.

For Dm you can use either and in the long-term you will find occasions when you will be glad if you learned both.

Dmin with 3rd finger enables playing Dsus4.
Dmin with 3rd finger allows changing the bass note with 3rd finger.
This is all to come later in the course.

I hope that helps.

Cheers

| Richard | JustinGuitar Approved Teacher, Official Guide & Moderator

[Lorzion]

So, I’ve got little hands. I absolutely cannot mute the low E string with my ring finger without also muting the high e string with the chubby part at the start of the digit. I tend to wrap my thumb around the neck to mute strings (D and A chords for instance)… Is that bad? If it works it works right? C is a hard chord to form the shape with my sized hands anyway, I have to be halfway up the fret with my ring finger for the same above reason

Correction after tinkering with it some more. I can get the chord to ring out correctly 2 ways. Way 1 is what i described above using my thumb to mute low E. The other way is if my thumb is on the back of the neck and kicking my entire hand and arm out far away to give myself more room… but thats a completely different position than how I play any other chord and will make fast changes nearly impossible, and I still cant mute low E with my ring finger and play the note on A without buzz

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@Lorzion

The other way is if my thumb is on the back of the neck and kicking my entire hand and arm out far away to give myself more room…

This.

And it will likely give you enough room to mute the E with the tip of your ring finger, not much contact is needed. Then practice targeting the 5 strings that make up the chord, slow and deliberate. Same with the D chord target just the 4 strings. Slow controlled. After time you will instinctively miss the unneeded strings. But it takes time and practice.
Keep you thumb at the back of the neck until you can do the above. Build the foundation basics first before worrying about thumb muting. That will come all in good time.

[Tbushell]

@Lorzion

. I tend to wrap my thumb around the neck to mute strings (D and A chords for instance)… Is that bad?

I asked a similar question a while back…

Muting vs Missing strings - question for more experienced players

In the early beginner lessons, Justin talks about strumming so you miss the thicker strings when playing D and A chords. He later introduces muting with the ring finger for the C chord. But I don’t recall him talking about thumb muting much in the early lessons…if at all. I struggled with this “miss the strings” technique…it really messed up my strumming. I could never get a good solid strum while also avoiding the E and A strings. Things started going much better when I learned to thumb mu…

From reading the replies, I concluded there is no “right” answer. You have to figure out what works for you at your current level of development.

To sort of quote Justin:

If it sounds good, and feels good, it is good.

[TruongLGuitar]

whenever I play the C chord my pinky finger keep raising up, should I try to keep it down while changing chords?