Troubles with wrist & thumb position and some arm pain

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I’ve browsed similar topics on this, but looking for feedback based on photos of my particular situation. I’m 5 months in, on Grade 2 Module 10. Started module 9 a month ago and moved into 10 this week. So about a month of working on F chord. I had my guitar setup a month ago and the action is great, I barely have to apply pressure to get notes to ring out. I do also practice on an acoustic maybe 30% of the time, and it’s much tougher.

Despite trying, I can’t comfortably keep my thumb on the back of the neck as Justin suggests. I know he stresses this particularly when working on the F Chord and building strength. My wrist bends more than I think it should when having my thumb around the back. That said, my thumb around the back is the only way to get F Chord to work. I’ve noticed some pain and fatigue when working on the F Chord and F Changes exercises, as well as the Californication riff.

Here’s a comparison of how I usually hold chords (top photo in each collage) versus how it would look if my thumb was on the back of the neck, showing how bent the wrist is in each scenario. It seems about as bent as it can get when I have my thumb around the back:

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This is how I hold F chord. I can get it to ring clearly and can do fast perfect changes for D, C, and weak finger G with 14 - 16 changes per minute. But it causes fatigue and soreness after ~10 minutes of practicing with the F chord. I’m also pressing quite hard with the first finger, particularly to get the 2nd string to ring out.

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I’ve now noticed pain further up my left arm. Dull and throbbing a few times a minute while playing, then eventually fading, and doesn’t match other guitar injuries I’ve read about. I don’t know if it’s a result of working on F Chord more or other changes. The only other change is in the past month I’ve shifted from mostly working on chords/songs to mostly working on spider and pinky exercises, riffs, and scales - so a different type of finger movement on the fretting hand maybe? I practice 1 - 2 hours on weekdays and 2 - 3 on weekends. The pain is roughly here:

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My last question in regard to the photos - is my forearm angled in too much? I don’t feel as though my fingers are perpendicular to the neck. They’re more often pointed toward me at an angle, with my open palm pointing toward me at an angle.

Current playing position:

Straight back chair with no arms, guitar on right thigh tucked into hip, right foot raised on a small box. Neck tilted at an upward angle and somewhat pointed forward away from my body.

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This is correct for open chords. You only need to have the thumb around the back for barre chords.

This is also correct.

This is normal at this stage. It will take months to build up strength in the hand.

Try moving the position of the finger up or down, i.e. varying how much the tip of the finger is protruding above the guitar, you will need to experiment a bit to find the right position for you, everyone has a slightly different shaped finger.

Almost certainly related to the position of the wrist which is pulling on the muscles. You need to counteract this by stretching the muscles in the opposite direction. The exercises from 0:50 to 1:20 in this video should help. I’ve had similar issues with pain in the forearm and elbow. It takes a while to correct itself, might take a month or so of stretching before you notice some improvement.

There is no ergonomically perfect position for playing guitar. Arms, elbow, wrist etc are always going to be in an unnatural position. Just make it as comfortable as possible and do stretching exercises if necessary.

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I keep the thumb in back for everything (which is probably why I suck at bending.) I find it hard to play any chords with my thumb over the top without my hand flattening out to where I’m not getting just the fingertips on the strings and I start muting adjacent strings.

Those wrist stretches are what I was going to recommend. I was getting that soreness in the forearm until I did the stretches. It’s no longer an issue.

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Thanks for the reply. I do sometimes do those stretches, but not every time I play so maybe I need to get better about that.

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Also, take it easy on the practice time. From 1-3 hours a day is a lot. Do the stretches daily, but also cut back some on your practice time for now, maybe even skip a day every now and then. Otherwise the injury might get worse, and you might find yourself unable to play.

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My only suggestion would be to use the guitar as leverage. What I mean is with strumming hand use that fore arm to brace the guitar against your body and when fretting the F barre use your left side to pull back into the neck. This helps with having that left hand be the source of strength needed.

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I think this is perfectly normal for your stage of playing. You are working some new muscles pretty hard, so take care and pace yourself. Stretch, warmup, massage, and don’t over do it.

The area you feel pain in the forearm is where the muscles that pull your wrist up and back on the thumb (radial) side. They also help at the elbow.

The reason that are strained is because they are strongly countering the forces of your fingers on the neck of the guitar. It is reacting to the “death grip”. Massage it, wrap it, stretch it, but most importantly, rest it. It is a prelude to “tennis elbow” and that is a tendinitis which will take months of full rest to heal.

As you navigate through what I believe is a stage of your body getting accustomed to playing guitar, you will have developed techniques and strength such that it won’t be such an issue. But like any sport, this is the time injuries are more likely so take care of yourself. It is part of learning to play guitar.