Tube (or tube-emulated) amps with attenuation and XLR output

Beatup6String · March 2, 2025, 9:22pm

I’ve read most of the other threads about amplifiers, but couldn’t find a thread that covered my specific questions, hence the new topic.

Context:

In ~5yrs of guitar playing, I have traded up from a Fender Frontman 20 to a Boss Katana 50 to a Line 6 Catalyst 60. I like the Catalyst but it’s not a keeper. And, well, GAS attack after completing BLIM
For my next GAS purchase, I want to buy a ‘better’ amplifier, one that I will keep for a long time.
Either a tube amp or a very good emulation of one. I have never played with a tube amp, but my guitar buddies and the Internet tell me enough mythical stories about the unique sound and feel of tube amps, that I want to try them.
I don’t need lots of different models and effects to be built-in. I like the idea that the same computing power could be used to emulate one great amp really well (choice 2 on my shortlist), instead of emulating lots of amps decently (like the Catalyst 60).
I hope to play open-mics some day, or maybe teach kids guitar, but most of my playing and recording will be at home. Power scaling / attenuation, and a direct XLR out are important features, i.e. I find XLR outs much easier than miking an amp and expecting the family to be super quiet. Low weight isn’t particularly important, just a ‘nice extra’.
In terms of playing abilities, I am early intermediate, i.e. BLIM class one, just wrapped up Grade 3, starting Grade 4. It is entirely possible that I don’t have the chops and experience to ‘feel’ the difference between tube and solid-state amps, but I hope to eventually!
Tone-wise – blues, blues-rock and clean tones are important. Jazz is secondary. High-gain, hard rock and metal tones are not of interest.
Budget: ideally around the $1k mark, but could go to $1.5k. Happy to go lower too, ceteris paribus :). See choice 3 on my list.

The advice I seek:

My goal is to short-list a few amps that I can try out in person.

Here’s the list so far. What else should I put on it? What other advice, suggestions, counsel can the community offer?

Peavey Classic 20 Combo (~$1k, my guitar sherpa/buddy has the Head with a separate cabinet, and loves it. All the online reviews seem to talk about its clean and overdriven/rock tones, rather than it being particularly good for Blues)
Fender ToneMaster Delux Reverb (~$1.1k… I could get the 65 reissue tube amp, but it lacks the attennuator and XLR outs. I watched several YT reviews e.g. TPS, InTheBlues, that compared the TMDR to the '65 reissue, and the differences seem to be small, and perhaps only observable to a tube connosieur, which I am not.)
Monoprice Stage Right 15 watt (~$0.4k, very good reviews, but they all seem to say ‘its a lot of amp for the money’ which sounds faintly damning?)

Thank you!

Majik · March 2, 2025, 11:38pm

Sorry, but I’m going to be a bit brutal here. But for typical Open mic use, you are deluding yourself if you think you need a tube amp or that a tube amp will benefit you in any significant way.

Frankly, at the sort of volumes at a typical Open Mic night, a Katana or Katalyst will probably sound better.

Tube amps only sound significantly better than modelling amps when they are driven and, in most cases you won’t drive a tube amp hard on a stage unless you are on a large professional stage, where they will be mic’ing up the cabinet and, possibly, running it into an ISO booth.

Yes, load boxes are possible, but you will be spending a lot of money on getting something which, frankly, 100% of the audience will not care about. For a decent tube amp and load-box system, realistically you are looking at spending $2,000+ and, even then, the audience won’t care.

And that is assuming a professional stage. For open mic use, it’s a complete waste of time.

In terms of XLRs, I agree, they are easier than micing an amp, but almost any amp with an emulated out is, basically, going to be a modeller. The question then is why are you spending a bunch of money buying a tube amp if you are going to bypass a lot of the potential and just use the (usually fairly lousy) onboard modeller when you could just use a much better (and far cheaper) modeller in the first place?

Also, you almost certainly don’t need XLR out. XLR (balanced) outputs are generally better than a normal unbalanced line out, but the actual difference is negligible unless you are running on a large professional stage where you have 10s of metres of cables between your amp the the sound board.

I say this as someone who has done the sound for a number of Open Mics and pub and wedding bands.

You are massively overthinking this and looking to spend a lot of money diving into a rabbit-hole that gives you no benefit, especially at the level you are at.

You want to sound great at an open mic? Practice more. This will 100% improve your performance, whilst buying new gear will 100% NOT improve your performance at all and may, in fact, degrade it.

Cheers,

Keith

Majik · March 2, 2025, 11:58pm

More specifically…

What do you mean by “better”. If you don’t know exactly what you mean by this then you are just looking to spend money for no reason.

You’ve already experienced very good emulation of one. Of course, there are better (e.g. Kemper, Quad Cortex, etc.) but how much is “better”? Johnny Marr famously used a Boss GT-100 for ages and sung its praises and, more recently, uses a GT1000. Many bedroom tube snobs would turn their noses up at that, and yet he, as a professional and well-regarded musician, is happy with it.

When I was in Singapore, most of the professional music venues were using cheap Boss modelling units and getting great results. One of the biggest clubs in Singapore used Katanas as their backline:

Here’s a pedalboard from a club I once went to that had a regular band:

It’s kind of a false premise. With a modelling amp, when you select a model, 100% of the power of the unit is focused on producing the sound for that emulation. There’s no dilution between a modeller having 1 amp model or 100.

The ONLY downside of a modeller having lots of models is that it can cause option paralysis in the user and make the modeller more complex to use (more options = more complex).

Then you are mostly wasting your time chasing the mythical “tube tone”. As I said before, the real magic with tubes tends to come when running them really hot (which means loud) and even cheap modellers are pretty good at capturing that at low volumes these days.

If you are serious about this, my advice would be to go to a shop and try some stuff out in a private room where you can test it at the sorts of volumes you would use at home (and, for open mics, they are often similar volumes) and see what you like.

Frankly, I think the user interface will probably be the most significant factor in what you prefer, rather than the tone.

Cheers,

Keith

Majik · March 3, 2025, 12:22am

I will further add, I have several friends who are professional musicians.

One of them, who was also my music teacher for a short time, swore by his two (Marshall 100W and Fender 50W) tube amps and I ended up doing the sound for his band’s gigs for a few years and had to lug those things in and out of vans and up and down stairs to venues, mic them up, deal with their occasional unreliability, etc.

Several years ago, he tried a Line 6 Helix and, within 6 months, had sold his two tube amps, his pedalboard and his analogue mixer and went fully digital.

Another friend is a retired professional Blues musician who played with John Mayall, Freddie King, John Lee Hooker, and Harvey Mandell amongst others. He uses a Boss Cube (see the interview I did with him here).

Another guitarist friend of mine plays guitar entirely using software emulations (Amplitube, I think, running through an audio interface on an iPad). He’s toured across the UK and Europe with his band.

Cheers,

Keith

HappyCat · March 3, 2025, 12:40am

For sure man! Get a tube amp Ashu! You won’t be sorry.

I’ll recommend what I got. Since I like what I got.

I play at home.
My tube amps got no connectivity. They are combo amps. Mid priced. 12w-15w.

While tube amps may sound their best when turned up, that don’t mean they don’t sound great at lower volumes too.

imho, from you list I’d do the deluxe reverb. But blow off the tone master part. At least get the reissue.

My last amp I got was the 65 princeton reverb ri. It was between the deluxe reverb ri and the princeton. When I bought it I just didn’t see the need for the 22w of the deluxe. So went with the princeton @ 12w. Hind sight, perhaps I shoulda got the deluxe. Only because it best I can tell, it behaves a bit different for breakup than the princeton. Whatever. Both are real sweet.

If ya want connectivity. Put a mic in ft. of it and yer connected.

The Princeton Reverb RI is not a quite amp @ 12w. I’ve not put mine on 10. I have tried 7-8, very loud, very overdriven. If ya play at lower volumes and ya want overdrive, put a pedal in ft. of it. This works just fine.

I live in a house. I can play likely louder than a flat.
My go to vol. is 4.25. This is plenty loud. It’s just starting to breakup playing aggressive. To make this a reasonable volume, I turn the guitar down. 3-6. The tone is stellar. It has the ‘sag’ that ss amps don’t have. It’s glassy clean to just starting to crunch.

Get either or.

My other amp is a supro blues king 12. It’s quite different than the Fender. It’s got the kinda low fi supro sound. It has a master volume. This is highly beneficial for dialing in some overdrive at more than reasonable volume. If ya wana get down, just turn up the master volume.
The supro don’t seem to have the sag of the fender. I think because the rectifier in the fender is tube, the rectifier in the supro is SS. It’s also class A amp (supro) vs AB for the Fender. These to classes seem to sound different to me.
The Supro cleans are near the glassy clean of the Fender. They’re bell like tones.

I could go on…

I like the simplicity of the tube amp. There are no bells and whistles. Ya get vol, tone, maybe reverb and tremolo. That’s it. They don’t connect…
But my oh my, they sound sweet. Even if ya don’t get the opportunity to crank them up. They are not computers. They are guitar amplifiers. They don’t emulate anything, they are what they are.
Spend the bread and get one that sounds good to you… Deluxe Reverb ‘RI’ (kinda from your list) (just my humble opinion)…

You’ll be a happy camper man!

This is obviously the opposite opinion of Magic. That’s ok. This is the spice of life. To ea. there own for what makes them happy. It seems the options are near unlimited these days.

Lastly, be aware of the master vol. amps vs the single vol. control amps. There is much difference in what they do and how loud ya gotta get them prior to breakup, if that’s your thing.

I whole heatedly support your quest for a tube amp. I had the quest too and I’m not sorry I went the tube route. I think it’s eye opening for tone.
My suspicion is ya get one, ya may not play your solid state amps as much…

Last idea I’ll pose is,
I wonder why, best I can tell, all modelers profile this tube amp or that tube amp? Why not just get a real tube amp that is the real thing. Sure ya only get one choice, but do ya really need a 100 choices?
My tube amps sound, like, me (for good or bad of course).

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 1:42am

Lots to digest here thanks.

I appreciate the candor, especially if it saves me money in the end
(I am curious why people don’t discourage better / more expensive guitars, but do so for amps, in this and other responses I have seen in the JGC. )

That’s not my reason for getting a tube. It’s about using what great guitarists from the '50s, '60’s, '70s used, and maybe they sound better to my ears, and yes, I get that I am chasing tone.

Hmm, isn’t that what the attenuator is for? i.e. you run a 22W tube amp at 11, or 5 or 2w, and drive it harder without getting too loud for the time and place.

Entirely possible. My understanding is that a USB out would bypass my DI (Focusrite Scarlett), and an XLR out (like the one I use on my Cat60), goes into the DI, alongside the mike I use for vocals. I assumed that USB out to my computer would mean that I couldn’t record vocals and guitar at the same time.

That’s exactly the kind of experience that led me to ask my questions, so

I am under no illusion that buying new gear will make me a better player and I have no intention to practice less. Not sure what I said that led you down this path.

I said ‘better’ since I know its very subjective. I know that each time I changed amps, I liked the sounds and tones and interface and ease of customizing and recording more, and I think I am still below the point of diminishing returns on price i.e. amps can cost up to $4k-5k or more. I’ve always understood the sound of an overdriven tube to be the holy grail, at least for the genres of music I like and cited in my OP. I hope to get those sounds at spouse and neigbour friendly volumes.

Yes, I am serious about this… hence my OP question – what should I try out aside from the 3 on my list,

Agreed - I want a simple and manual/physical interface, not one that is only software/apps/patches/etc.

Yep, understood Majik. That’s why I said I would mostly use it at home or an open mic, so the weight wasn’t that big a deal as it would be if I gigged a lot, but low weight is a very nice to have, hence the ToneMaster on my list.

I’d watched it when you first posted it, it was very insightful.

I am not so sure about this. For sure the run-time CPU would be 100% used for one model at a time, but I imagine data storage being a constraint, and the digitized information needed for 100 models might lead to some compromises e.g. reacting to the tone, volume, reverb knobs may do a lot more interpolations, whereas the same amount of data storage for one model might store more digital signal curves and hence need less interpolations and approximations. But its been a long time since I studied DSP in college, I need to learn more about this.

True that… After a few months of that, I have mostly used the Clean channel and physical controls on the Catalyst.

J.W.C · March 3, 2025, 5:26am

I’m going to comment on these two quotes from the context you provided.

I’ll get the tube amp commentary out of the way, first. I prefer tube amps over modelers, for various reasons that aren’t relevant. However, for the use cases you’re describing, you don’t need a tube amp at all, and a digital solution will probably serve you better. (Also, you list an XLR output as an important feature – if you’re using an XLR output from an amp, even a tube amp, you’re getting a digital model of at least the speaker cabinet, anyway.)

So yeah, you don’t need a tube amp. That said, I won’t argue that shouldn’t get a tube amp. The real question, there, is if you want a tube amp…even if it’s just because it’s a tube amp. If so, I think that’s fine: there’s nothing wrong with that. If, when you buy a new amp that isn’t a tube amp, you’re going to be kinda wishing it was a tube amp, and you’ll probably still want a tube amp somewhere down the line, then you might consider going ahead with what you really want (i.e., a tube amp). Maybe it will be great and you’ll become one of those tube amp guys. Maybe you’ll be underwhelmed, sell it, and by a Helix or something. But you’ll have scratched that itch and you’ll know.

If you go digital that Tonemaster Deluxe Reverb you mentioned would be a fine choice, in my opinion. Also, you’re mistaken about it not having XLR out: it has a balanced XLR out with impulse response cab simulations.

If you go tube, it’s a little tough with a $1K budget. The Monoprice is an excellent value for the money, and many people like it. It does have the “budget tube amp” aura about it, but by all accounts it’s a good budget tube amp, not dissimilar to something like a Fender Blues Junior, but without paying the “Fender” tax. Of course, the Fender Blues Junior is another option. It’s a solid amp, but I think it’s held back by its cabinet, and maybe by its speaker (if you put it through a different cabinet it sounds better, in my opinion). With your budget you could also push up to a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe. I’ve never been a big fan of the HRD, but again, many people like them.

So here’s my hot take. Based on what you said in your original post I recommend getting the Fender Tone Master Deluxe Reverb. I think it’s a good amp that will you serve you and your intended use case well. I like the approach Fender has taken with the Tone Master line. It’s simple, it “feels like an amp” when you use it, you don’t suffer from any options overload, it looks good, it sounds good, it has the XLR out, it’s lightweight, et cetera.

However, if you know that your heart-of-hearts won’t be truly satisfied until you’ve owned a tube amp, then I’d save up and get the (tube) Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb. That’s a no-compromise, classic, pro tube amp that’s known for its good tone, et cetera. It’s almost certainly more amp than you need right now, but “need” isn’t really the point if you’ve decided to go tube. If you go this route you won’t be second guessing about “maybe I should’ve bought a better tube amp.” Lastly, the '65 Deluxe Reverb is well-known and well-liked and won’t go out of date, so if you decide it’s not for you it should have decent resale value.

(Final comment: if you end up getting a tube amp you’ll need to crank it up to get the full range of what it can deliver, and what people love about tube amps. If you can’t do that at your location you’ll need some sort of attenuation. I recommend a Two Notes Torpedo Captor X, which will give you attenuation and also provides speaker/cab/microphone impulse response simulation and an XLR output if you want to use that instead. Obviously, this is an additional cost.)

Kasper · March 3, 2025, 7:09am

What style of music are you after? I’ve played tube amps with my band for the last 30 years or so, and can attest that once it warms up there is something “magical” about the way it sings and feels. I’m not entirely in agreement with Majik here when it comes to the whole volume thing. Obviously a 100W plexi is entirely untameable for a small stage, but these days there are many tube heads that are 20W (typically with 2xEL84 in the power section), 40W (4x6v6) or 50W (2xEL34 or 2x6L6). Many also have good master volumes now.

My main band amp is a 40W Revv, and it’s just right for live use with my semi-loud covers band. It’s NOT loud enough for the medium sized gigs (think typical cantina for a company xmas party) and I have to mike it for volume in those situations (and not just to get the sound in the PA speajers).

But again, what style are you after? If you want a singing gain/lead tone (Gary Moore etc) as well as a good clean tone, then you need to look at a channel switching head. You mention you want XLR out and silent recording (smart, can also be used for very silent playing on stage) and some amps does this well, and some does it very poorly (older models). You’ll want an amp with built-in “Two-notes Torpedo” tech and proper IRs, not just some old “CabClone” stuff. It’s important that the direct out takes the signal AFTER the power section, otherwise you’ll not really benefit much from the tubes at all.

Kasper · March 3, 2025, 7:12am

I forgot to add - my comments above are taking the angle in favor of tube heads. All this being said - the latest modellers ARE extremely good, and I’m actually currently experimenting with switching to a fully modeller + FRFR setup with the band. The tones are good, but TBH I can already hear something missing (and my band mates commented the same). But it’s very possible it’s just because I have not dialed the new gear in as well as my old tube-based setup, which I’ve played for years with the same settings.

The modeller I’m going for, and which will be practical for very small and very silent stages, is based around a Fractal FM9 modeller.

mathsjunky · March 3, 2025, 7:57am

There’s a lot of good advice already in this thread, but I’ll add my 2c.

Personally I love tube amps, there is just something about them, they make me feel different when I play them. They feel different to play, they get warm, they have a special smell
I also love my modeller, especially if I’m playing quietly - it’s hassle free and has a ton of tone options.
If you want to turn down the volume on a tube amp, it won’t sound the same. However you can still get some good tones - there are three options really. In no particular order - Master Volume, Power Scaling and attenuation. I have a 25w Mesa with power scaling and a master volume control and it’s very usable at low volumes, but to get the best of out of it it needs to get to 90-100 db.
I have a really nice (and pretty inexpensive) attenuator from Audiostorm in the UK, I have it inline but usually just bypass it on the Mesa as the master volume does a great job. If getting a tube amp I’d recommend one with a Master volume.

The second hand market has a lot of tube amps at great price right now - particularly higher power ones - they are much less popular these days - I got the Mesa second hand for a song.

One final thought, tube amps need care and attention - it will need new tubes at some point, and they might need to be biased, they want to be serviced and looked after.

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 11:44am

Very helpful, thank you!

The Blues Jr, the Sweetwater version with an Eminence speaker was also on my list.

Understood. Perhaps I mistyped, but I was trying to say that the TMDR was on my list but the Deluxe reverb reissue was not, since the latter lacked attenuator and XLR.

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 11:46am

That is what I’m after.

Thanks for the other tips…

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 11:56am

Haha, that’s exactly what took me down this path. FOMO of never feeling this way!

Maybe it’s just confirmation bias and internet algos but I see this passion and enthusiasm about tube amps far more frequently than about modelers.

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 11:57am

Perhaps the answer to the various tradeoffs is to get a good tube amp (and an attenuator if needed), and not sell off my catalyst 60 … horses for courses so to speak. Gotta save up some more $

mathsjunky · March 3, 2025, 12:11pm

It’s not a perfect analogy, but I used to own a classic car (a Triumph TR6). It was noisy, smelly, uncomfortable and quite slow by today’s standards, it didn’t handle as well as a modern sports car, but it made me feel great on a sunny day when it was running well.
You can’t compare it objectively to my modern electric car, it was a totally different beast.
I wouldn’t want the TR6 as my daily driver though

mattswain · March 3, 2025, 12:20pm

Maybe people who buy modellers aren’t trying to justify an expensive purchase? If you want a tube amp, buy a tube amp, you don’t have to justify it to anyone

Beatup6String · March 3, 2025, 12:48pm

Possible.

I’m not trying to use this post to justify anything I purchase or to start a broader tube versus modeler debate. Although that is interesting in its own right.

I’m trying to get Input into which tube amps to audition, based on the criteria I outlined, and whether Fenders Tone Master range is worth including in the list.

Learning a lot from everyone

mattswain · March 3, 2025, 1:05pm

I really hope no one does that. Completely pointless, a guaranteed bloodbath, will be as respectful and well-considered as an internet “debate” on American politics

Kasper · March 3, 2025, 3:41pm

Let’s get specific Allow me to suggest this amp as a strong candidate for you (hunt down reviews on YouTube and see what you think)

mathsjunky · March 3, 2025, 4:18pm

Here’s another option. I’ve not played this so can’t comment on it personally, but if you’re after Gary Moore sounds then a Marshall is a good start. Has power scaling and master volume and a DI out (although it’s not XLR). It’s also relatively inexpensive.