Recently purchased the Trio+ and must say loving it.
I am using it with my acoustic guitar (Taylor with ES2 Pickup (battery)). My connections are:
Guitar Trio+ Guitar In.
Trio+ Amp Out Katana 50 Mk2 Input.
I have no problem creating drums and bass backing. However, if I generate a loop the loop playback is very quiet even with everything cranked. It looks like the acoustic signal is too low for this (maybe?)? With my electric there is no problem the sound is fine.
So, my question is, I also have a Boss RC1. If I connected as follows:
Guitar Boss RC1 Input
Boss RC1 Output Trio+ Guitar In
And then Amp out as before to the Katana
Would the Boss RC1 act to boost the signal to lift the Loop side of the Trio+ without damage?
I haven’t tried it as I was worried about letting the smoke out of one of them, and that’s never a good look but just wondering if anyone else has a setup that works without the need for more hardware
Hi Richard, thanks. I’ve just checked a few more settings. So the guitar setting does make a difference, however to be “quietly acceptable on playback both the guitar and the Trio have to be at max. However I further found that everything mentioned so far is with the Katana set to 0.5w (0.5, 25, 50 are the settings). I play this in a small room at home so only really ever need 0.5w (25w is pretty loud so you end up with all the volumes set pretty low)
If I run the amp at 25w I do then get a decent loop sound but need to turn back the drum and bass to only 8 or 9 position (7 is right down).
I guess overall, it appears that there is a big difference in playback levels and therefore settings required between the backing and the loop. This isn’t the case with the electric.
Thanks, tbh I haven’t changed the battery but it is pretty recently replaced and shows no other signs of depletion, but out of interest I’ll give it a try. There is no problem at all directly into the Katana or through the RC1.
My acoustic doesn’t have electrics so I use my electric guitar to create Trio+ drum/bass/loops.
A few years ago I thought about buying a clip on soundhole pickup and asked for advice on the forum. I was advised that a clip on pickup might not have enough power to activate the Trio+ and was told to test this out by checking what volume level was required on my electric guitar control (Gibson SG) to activate the Trio+.
The drum/bass function activated at around 3 and the loop function at around 4. A clip on pickup without a preamp would not achieve these levels so I didn’t buy one.
However this may shine a light on your issue Craig as it would appear that the loop function requires a slightly higher volume input than the drum/bass function.
One more option in addition to the boost or EQ pedal would be to use an acoustic preamp pedal.
There are a range of prices on these from “quite affordable” too “buy another guitar,” but all of them will provide you with more control over your single than the built in Taylor preamp.
Behringer and Sonicake both make one that might serve you well and both are available on Amazon.com.au which, if you are a Prime member, means you can try one or even both with a 30 day return.
Hi Gordon, very interesting info thanks. And out of interest I also do have a soundhole pickup that I used to use on my Yamaha that has no built in pickup so just for the exercise will see what happens and let you know.
Thanks again Richard, might be something that will be handy to have anyway I guess, I’m sure i’d find other uses for it.
Well, well, well. I wonder if this might have anything to do with your lack of output?
I just had a quick look at the Taylor website and noticed this. Your pickups, there are three, may not be in contact with the bridge plate/saddle.
Pickup Adjustments
The ES2 utilizes three uniquely positioned, individually calibrated pickup sensors located behind the saddle. The individual pickup pressures are factory set and will likely only need to be adjusted if the saddle is being removed or replaced. Pressure on each sensor is controlled by turning the adjustment screws (visible behind the saddle; see photo below). The small, visible circles behind the bridge contain tiny adjustable arms. The small adjustment screws on top move the arms forward and backward, increasing and decreasing the pressure of the pickup sensors against the lower rear portion of the saddle, similar to pushing on a brake pedal in a car.
Note: The saddle should not be removed or replaced without first loosening the adjustment screws located on the top of the pickup housings. Otherwise the pickup could be damaged.
To remove the saddle: The pickup sensors must first be loosened (backed away from the saddle) by loosening the pressure adjustment screws located on top of the housings behind the saddle. The adjustment will require a .050 hex key (Allen wrench).
Turning the hex key counterclockwise 1-½ turns will back the sensor arms away from the saddle so it can be removed from the slot easily. Once the saddle is placed back in the slot, the pickup sensors can be reset with the saddle by turning them clockwise 1-½ turns.
Fine Adjustment
Very light pressure on the sensors is all that is needed to make the system work well. Changing the tension on the sensors will change the timbre of the sound and volume of the pickup slightly. Approximately one full turn of the tension screw is the maximum amount of pressure variance.
We suggest that any adjustments for sound be made using the following process:
Plug the guitar in and turn the volume up.
While plucking sets of two strings at a time, turn the adjustment screw associated with those strings (E/A - D/G - B/E) one turn counterclockwise until the sound of those strings diminishes. This will loosen the pressure on the sensor.
To engage the pickup for those strings, turn the screw back again clockwise ¼ turn at a time while plucking the strings until the sound of the strings returns. This will increase the pressure on the sensors. Repeat the process for the other string pairings (D/G - B/E).
Additional Note: The pickup system is held in place in the guitar by the pressure of the sensors against the saddle. If the pickup is accidently pushed out during saddle replacement, it can easily be put back into the bridge by pushing it up through the three pickup holes. The top of the pickup housing should be flush with the top of the bridge to be accurate.
I then headed over to YouTube. This is just a very short clip that may confirm my suspicion, it doesn’t contain the actual fix.
Thanks again. The ES2 system seems to generate a lot of discussion online in general with two main sides, people either seem to hate it or find it’s fine.
There is a factory torque setting for the pickups that is very light that they are recommended set at, however, it seems that small adjustments to this can remove some of the “quackiness” of the Piezo. But, to achieve this it needs loosening (ie: reducing the pressure of the sensor on the bridge/saddle plate) and of course the trade off is that doing this has the effect of reducing sensitivity and therefore affecting the overall pickup output
Disclaimer: I’m no expert on this, most of the above has been learnt from the internet😁
However, I am pretty happy with the pickups performance in terms of output in general as there is no problem with any other hardware such as the amp, Boss RC1 etc. and the Trio+ picks the signal up pretty well on the backing learning side. The Trio+ info does say to ensure that you have your guitar outputs turned up pretty well.
I’m wondering if I just need to accept running the amp at the 25w setting and back the drum/bass right down. There’s some more trial and error to be done.
I did notice that there was a bit of a divide on the topic of ES2.
The pickup adjustment was something that I just glossed over yesterday and as I was noodling away this morning it popped back into my head as a possible culprit.
Another installment for those interested and maybe @sairfingers this helps you.
I have just tried my cheapo soundhole pickup (Aldi) on the Trio+ and guess what? Yep, it works great Both picking up during the learning stage and recording a loop work just fine with very little string hit required to trigger the Trio and the playback volume on the Loop is just fine. Bizarre I know go figure.
I guess the most important thing is that your new toy is not defective
If it’s working properly with the e-guitar and soundhole pup, that’s great.
The simplest explanation would be that there’s only a very weak signal coming from the Taylor output, but that doesn’t really make sense if the Katana sound is strong?
One day, years from now, you’ll probably have a ‘eureka’ moment
Meanwhile get back to practicing that first song you’re going to share with drum’n’bass
Well, that’s that theory blown out of the water!
Thanks for that info Craig, I might get myself a clip on pickup now. It would save swapping guitars about when creating Trio+ backing tracks. I’d just assumed it wouldn’t work and haven’t given it any more thought since the forum discussion a few years ago.
As for using the pickup for amplification, my acoustic is loud enough already and when I post AVoYPs using my basic iPhone setup, it’s usually the lack of vocal volume that gets the comments.
Not necessarily. There are two different pick ups. Active and passive. So before you run out a pick up a PU for you acoustic make sure you get the right on.
Trio+ Guitar In.
.
yes probably. I’m a serial problem solver though so I struggle to let things go