What are the criteria to be able to call yourself an Intermediate Acoustic Rhythm Guitarist

Community Hub 🗨 Just Chatting
1

I have been calling myself an ‘Advancing Beginner ‘rhythm guitar player for a quite a while but I am starting to wonder if that is still true and whether I am approaching Intermediate level. So have started to think what the criteria are to move to that level. Here are some of the abilities I think you have to be able to do so, which is relevant to the type of player and music you want to play. I should say I don’t think I am there yet but hopefully getting closer.

Do you agree or have I missed some things out.

Justins Grades
• Completed Grades 1 - 3 diligently.
• Grades 4, 5 and 6 the relevant parts, such as E and A shaped barre chords, and rhythm maestro. Not into Blues at present.

Chords
• Have a good range of chords you can play from memory including, slash chords, sus chords, 7th Chords and change in and out of them sufficiently well for a song.
• Use different fingering of a chord to make the changing in and/or out of chords.
• Play hammer ons, not sure flick offs are so important for a rhythm guitarist.

Strumming patterns
• Have a good range of strumming patterns in 4:4, 6:8 and 3:4.
• Also, some which involve picking out individual the notes.
• Playing barre chords in songs.
• Competent playing patterns with a metronome at various tempos
• Playing with pick or fingers

Fingerstyle (optional)
• General fingerstyle as well as travis picking and possibly hybrid picking.

Melody
• Play simple single note runs as part of a song but not to a standard as a solo lead guitarist.

Music Theory
• Completed PMT up to grade 5 - useful but not essential.

Transcribing/Ear Training
• Is it essential or just desirable?

Scales
• Basic understanding of scales both major and pentatonic
• As only playing rhythm, not lead guitar so extensive skill not essential but should be able to improvise in a simple way.

Performing
• Have played solo in front an audience at a JG OM or similar.
• Played part of a group with the additional skills of playing in time with others.

Song and Repertoire
• Have a number of songs you can play from memory.
• Played in the order of hundred songs usually from chord sheets to a reasonable standard.
• To be given a chord sheet of a song you have heard before but have never seen before and be able to play along with others after only after a couple of runs through. If you have not heard the song before you can listen to original.
• Be competent in playing the range of genres you are interested in.

Singing (0ptinolal)
• I am not expecting to be a great vocalist but at least have the ability to sing along with your guitar playing and not sounding completely out of tune.

To class yourself as Intermediate you have to be honest with yourself when judging yourself against this list.

All thoughts welcome.

Michael

3 Likes
2

Hi Michael,

Great question! I’m sure you will get a wide variety of opinions here. I agree with many of the points on your list.

That said, I have a really hard time labeling myself in this way. I like to think of myself more on a level of competency versus a level of skill. If you took me away from any of my current bands and placed me in another similar band, I think I could keep up and hold my own. I feel that I have reached a decent level of competency as a rock genre rhythm guitarist.

However, I am always striving to grow and improve and there is always something new to learn. I think I will always feel like a beginner in some ways. As @TheMadman_tobyjenner has said before, he considers himself an advancing beginner because he is always continuing to learn.

There are a couple items on your list that I would argue aren’t super necessary to becoming an “intermediate” level as far as rhythm guitar is concerned. I don’t think you need to be fluent using both a pick and your fingers. I think you just need to reach competency with your chosen method. It is unlikely that I will ever really play fingerstyle and I haven’t needed to with the music I play. You can pry my pick from my cold dead hands :laughing: :x_ray:

I would also say that I think your list could probably use a bit more emphasis on the ability to play in time. I think a good Rhythm guitarist needs to be able to play in time easily to their chosen source- whether that is drums or a click. Ideally, you should be able to do both. I mostly play to drums since I live with a drummer, but I also do a lot of recording. Just last night I was doing some recording for a song I had written to a click track since the drums are still being worked on. The ability to switch between both has been invaluable. “Rhythm is king” (or queen :wink: :crown:) as they say.

I’ll be interested to see what others think :guitar:

5 Likes
3

While I have no idea about what it means for a musician to be at a particular “skill level” I do have some understanding of this in a different context so I’ll speak to it generally.

First off, I’d focus on things you can actually do. Skills you have. So stuff that you can play. Songs, chords, rhythms for sure.

Some of the stuff you mention, I think, are separate (though maybe complementary) skills.

Singing is certainly a skill unto its own and shouldn’t really be a determinant of your guitar skill level. Some VERY skilled guitarists simply don’t sing.

I think music theory is something that’s complementary but not exactly correlated to a particular skill level.

Similarly, transcribing/ear training.

Seems to me that there’s not a universal, clear-cut division between beginner, intermediate, advanced with regards to music. I certainly don’t think that completion of any particular courses is necessarily a good definition, either.

I do like Jenn’s point about competency in your chosen “way” of playing and that you don’t necessarily need to have really broad skills. Thinking about it more, seems totally reasonable to me that you can be at different levels for different skills.

More to the point, though, I’m not sure that there’s a huge advantage to putting a really specific label on yourself. I’ve met a lot of folks through my local guitar club who have been playing for decades. Almost to the person, they call themselves beginners of some stripe or another (some using the exact “Advancing Beginner” term referenced above).

3 Likes
4

Michael, first, well done! You’ve made good progress toward your goals. So that’s a great achievement ! :slight_smile:

It’s true that the term intermediate can have several meanings. In the context of JustinGuitar’s course, I don’t see why you couldn’t consider yourself an intermediate player, because you’ve completed the consolidation of the beginner course (grade 3) and started the intermediate course (grade 4+) :slight_smile: I mean that’s how the course is divided.

But, in the broader context of music, my in-person teacher said that each teacher has their own definition of beginner, intermediate, and advanced levels. And it didn’t speak much to him when I used those labels to describe my guitar progression goals.

That’s probably why many courses that I see on TrueFire are labeled at intermediate or beginner, but are much more difficult than most grade 4-5 stuff. These are terms that are used differently with each course and teacher.

4 Likes
5

These types of labels only set you up for disappointment. If you need to classify yourself then advanced beginner would be the best category in.
You never stop learning so you’ll always be at the beginner stage in one way or another.

You may be advanced in one category and a complete beginner in another so let the labeling go.

I would change this to being able to play songs you’ve never heard before by listening and watching someone else play it. To truly be advanced you should be able to sit down with another musician and pick up what they are playing and join in on any 3 or 4 chord Pop, Country or Rock song.

4 Likes
6

A few years ago I caused myself a lot of stress and anxiety trying to answer this question, following a few start stop decades and solid progression with Justin for over a decade.

I gave up on the analysis thinking when would I even use such a label. Probably my Soto Zen self rejecting all a such labelling and attachments. I am sure there folk out there who’s ego needs something like that to hang there hat on, personally I am not bothered and as @Jenndye429 said I always refer to myself as an Advanced Beginner. Note the subtle difference Advanced not advancing, which conveys a level of competence.

Last year I was a Blues beginner (well have been for a while and still am!) This year I have been immersing myself in triads and arpeggios and a beginner in fancy chord extensions and tension tones. But still very much a beginner.

Your list of attributes certainly suggest you have reached what is generally seen as intermediate level. But tongue in cheek I ask, is that beginner intermediate, intermediate intermediate or advanced intermediate. Maybe you can see why I gave up.

Call yourself what you want if you need to but also realise the world will be full of folks with wildly differing views on what this actually means.

My 2 cents which probably doesn’t help but as we like to say JMHO.

:smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

4 Likes
7

I couldn’t agree more with what @stitch said in his response. If someone asks, I just call myself a guitarist that loves to play the best I can. Nobody is so perfect that they can’t advance to something new. Of course there are guitar legends out there. I mean the folks in this forum are all learning every chance they can. The key is to keep moving forward each day.

Jeff

4 Likes
8

You can call me, Al :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

6 Likes
9

You are a legendary guitar performer Toby. I have heard your stuff in the open mics before. Regardless, I agree and tend to stay away from the traditional labels and leave it as “We just play music and are lifelong learners”.

1 Like
10

Steady on Jeff I am blushing !! :rofl:

1 Like
11

Haha. Own your “awesomeness”

1 Like
12

I call myself a '60s garage-band rhythm player and a pentatonic noodler.

3 Likes
13

I agree with others that attaching these labels is a bit futile.
A better form of assessment would be to determine whether your playing is natural and free or are you constantly thinking about what you’re playing.
If you are progressing , you will move towards playing freely and naturally.

2 Likes
14

Michael…I don’t like labels either, but it is perfectly right to wonder and try to be objective with yourself. If someone asked me my level I would say “I’m an Advancing Beginner!”, both for the Classical and Acoustic Guitar…not Advanced Beginner as Toby @TheMadman_tobyjenner, because I don’t feel that being advanced at all on myself; on the contrary I much feel I’m advancing in a way or the other and everyday, even if I don’t play that day.

2 Likes
15

To my mind there’s a beginner and once you can play a few chords and hold a rhythm then you’re someone who plays guitar.

Whether you sing, know theory, write songs, perform to audiences, can transcribe by ear, play with a pick/fingers is personal preference. None of these things are essential in being a good standard of player. If you heard someone play who sounded fantastic and then learned they never played without a pick, would you then label them a beginner?

Most people wouldn’t apply such labels to other aspects of life (eg I’m an intermediate motorist) so why does it matter to guitar playing?

16

A number of answers have been variations along the lines of “don’t worry about the label, just enjoy playing.” For sure there is merit in that point of view.

Sometimes it is necessary to be able to express a level though. If I go skiing with fellow ski club of GB members, we need to be able to express a level otherwise some won’t be able to keep up and may be at higher risk of injury, some will be bored. On guitar, or any musical instrument, if you have a goal of being able to teach in 3 years time, or play the main stage at a big festival, or make money as a studio musician, you probably need some idea of where you are. If you aren’t making the progress you hoped for you may need to think about keeping the day job going for a year or two longer.

To answer one of the op’s questions: within Justin Guitar, if you are in the intermediate grades (and folllowed the process for the beginner grades and passed out as per the guidelines) then I’d say you are an intermediate player. Whether that means a whole load outside of Justin’s lessons, I don’t know.

And maybe a different way of looking at it:

If you were asked to dep (sub in American) for a band in 3 weeks time and given a song list of approx 16 songs, 12 of which you didn’t already know, could you learn them and play them at the gig without chord charts? I would expect an intermediate guitar player to have to spend a good amount of time in the shed, but be able to do it.

Or if you were asked to play 6 songs in a week’s time in a scratch band, but with chord charts allowed, would you be confident you could play regardless of the songs provided. Again I would expect any musician describing themselves as intermediate to be able to do this.

In both the above cases a run through with either the full band, or the band leader is assumed.

17

I think it is important to track progress, but criteria for labels will always be subjective and not necessarily helpful. I measure my progress through songs, I find that as a very honest indicator of guitar ability. Both rhythm and lead, you could clearly see progress once you can play something that was impossible months back. The key is to find adequate songs - enjoyable and challenging, but eventually doable with effort. Whether that makes you beginning or intermediate is not important.

1 Like
18

Hey Michael,

Taking honest stock of where you’re at is always a beneficial exercise. In fact its necessary. Your list certainly reveals you’ve been hard at work for a while.

Feeling proud of achievements and progress is good for the soul. And revealing issues and weaknesses allows for future focused planning.

The labelling, or classifying though, is perhaps less helpful I believe. Its pretty subjective, prone to bringing up feelings of failure or disappontment, and doesnt really add much. I suppose, in general conversation with others, it can give them an idea of roughly where you’re at.

My final determining barometer has always been about ‘competency’. Not skill, not knowledge, etc, as these are only partial steps towards the real goal - competence.

The main question I always ask myself, and often, is;

“Shane, but how well do you are REALLY ‘know’ x right now?”

Eg. Triads. Now I’ve been at them full on for over a couple years now. For me, they are, along with rhythm, the most important aspect of my guitar playing ; and in one sense, I’ve developed a fair amount of knowledge, and skill, and competence; in knowing them, moving between them, using them in progressions, songs, lead playing etc.

So, in one sense I could say I’m at a solid ‘intermediate’ level here. However, there would still be many situations and contexts where I would be found wanting. Where I’d fall short. Where I’d be essentially still ‘incompetent’.
So the labelling becomes a moot point really.

My mindset is that I’m approximately the 4,256,127th best guitarist in the world; happily and diligently working my way up that list…:wink:

Cheers, Shane

3 Likes
19

I don’t mind labels, I find them helpful. But I wouldn’t get too caught up in the details of exactly where you are.

I say that as someone who previously has been caught up in the details of where I was :rofl:.

I think of the levels: Beginner is learning to play, Intermediate is a giant chasm of which most competent guitarists are with a wide variety of skill in there, and Advanced are those that are so in touch with the instrument that many mere mortals will only strive for.

Without digging into a giant list - I think that’s less helpful - I think you’re an intermediate guitarist when the hard part of learning a song is remembering the arrangement or melody/picking riffs. Rather than struggling with fingers, chords or rhythm.

If you’re fluent with the vast majority of chords you need, and you can play most rhythms by ear without a “strumming pattern” (yuck) being explained to you, you can pick the strings you want, and your fingers will go where you want with riffs, you’re probably intermediate. Within reason, hard stuff is still hard…

3 Likes
20

It’s typical for humans to categorize. by reflex we tend to one dimensional categories.
“what’s your guitar level” is one of those one-dimensional ways to categorize.

We learned to apply multiple labels but I noticed in my UX/UI studies that the group who’s comfortable with “multi-labelling” content is a lot smaller.

Of course, we all like to zoom out and assess the progress we made. On a personal level I try to assess both skills and competences. Skills are learned abilities, easy to scope and to stack and often quite measurable. Competences are harder to express in grades because they are a foundation for skills, behavior, mindset etc. Stacking skills will develop certain competences and competences are fed through a broad set of activities, insights and experiences in your life

That’s why I like to zoom out and assess competences, as much as skills because competences are the foundation, the fertile soil for other, new skills or the development of existing blocks. I’m a creative generalist it is my gift but also my curse to work like this since my strengths are connecting in a broad fashion rather than technical expertise.

A long intro to come back to “level of guitarist”.
I saw your list of skills and if my life depended on it, I’d label you “early intermediate” :smiley: | I can be wrong but it is probably because between the lines of the skills, I read little about the competences.

For me, a beginner goes to an intermediate if he/she can start scatting of air guitaring along with simple and complex patterns and as soon as he/she knows the chords, can play along and feel where his/her place is. he/she adds flavour as part of improvisational skill: accents, chord variations and a direct click with the rhythm and song. An intermediate should be given a guitar and if he/she has the chords of a song she knows from the radio in front of him/her, should start playing and sound recognizable right away. Not perfect but recognizable beause, as @Jenndye429 said and as I echo myself; Rhythm is king and queen!

Don’t worry if this description doesn’t fit you right away. As you can read, “confidence” is a portion of what I write down. underneath the stack of skills, there is a grown confidence, the ability to take a modest role in a starting band, some creative spark to to that bit more than just playign the chords along with the song.

If you do feel like advanced in that field as wlel, you may confidently call yourself an “intermediate” guitarist. :smiley:

As many people, I can’t label myself right now either. I’m confident I’ll learn new things and they are based on some of my competences. I’ve seen my confidence on stage grow and when I hear myself pitching ideas to improve a song or performance, I know where I have grown the last couple of years.

I think the feeling that you keep momentum in growing, no matter in which direction, is the most important factor?

5 Likes