Chord Inversions & Jumbled Triads

Thanks to everyone who has responded, in particular close2u who has gone above and beyond the call of duty, as usual. It has cleared up some questions I had with inversion nomenclature and construction. I am 100% aware of the rabbit hole associated with chords. I still have some questions but I can always start another thread one day to pursue that. Cheers.

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Wow! this is my first time in a Forum. It is great to see all of those answers, really helpful.
Thank you all for the help

Now I have a lot to digest

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Hi @all,
iā€™m a little confused.
Why is the basenote not written down?
So in the first question F D B = B dim and why not B/F dim?
In method 1, donā€™t we write the basenote with the chord or am I wrong?

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Hi @reneguitar ,

In this exercise, one should think about the root, 3rd and 5th - none of those are supposed to be omitted.

The notes in an Fdim triad would be: F, Ab (flat 3rd), Cb (flat 5th).

The 3 notes in the exercise are F, D and B. While B and Cb are enharmonic equivalents, Fdim doesnā€™t have the note D in it. So that is not a good solution.

These are jumbled triads precisely because the notes are not written in the order of ascending pitch. Going back to F, D and B, you could start by checking the related major triads:

B: B, D#, F#
D: D, F#, A
F: F, A, C

Letā€™s check them one by one.

B, D#, F# is a B major triad. B, D and F have the flat 3rd and flat 5th degrees, so it will be a Bdim triad.

D, F#, A is a D major triad. The example has the note B in it which cannot even be the sharp 5th, so this is not a good solution.

F, A, C is an F major triad. The example has the note D in it which cannot even be the sharp 5th, so this is not a good solution either.

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Hello @reneguitar and welcome to the community.
Youā€™ve had a great explanation for @Jozsef.
Jumbled is the key ā€¦ and you need to un-jumble, a piece of detective work, using intervals and triad formulae.

Hi @Jozsef and @Richard_close2u

I understand the formula triads and chords inversions and jumbled.
I thought this lesson was about 1st Inversion vs. 2 Inversion chords.
This with marking the 3rd or 5th note at the base of the chord and then writing it down using method 1 of ā€œHow to write inversionsā€.
So in the first example B with an F base note diminished, as B/F dim.
the second one in the example E C B is C with an E root-note major, as C/E maj and so on.
Probably I thought wrong but I really thought that was the intention of this lesson.
All my answers were right, but always with the root note written after the chordā€™s /

My mistake :upside_down_face:

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What does " the triads are built by stacking thirds together from the parent scale" mean? Not even sure what a third is. If I take the C scale, for example, and go 12 semi-tones, I get back to C. So starting at C and going 4 semitones, or one third, brings me to D#, and then to G. But D# is not part of the triad. I feel I understood what Jason explained but this discussion is only confusing me.

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Itā€™s just every third note in each scale sequence.
Consider C scale. Notes are:
C D E F G A B C now letā€™s number them.
C1 D2 E3 F4 G5 A6 B7
Third note from Root C is E. Third note from E is G Third note from G is B
Chords are R, 3, 5, 7 etc ie. stacked thirds 1, 3, 5, 7 and so on.
C chord would be notes R35 so CEG

For D E F# G A B C#
D chord would be notes R35 so DEF#
D chord D F# A because D is the root note F # is the next third and A is the 5 note.

I like to recall the stacked 3rd aconymn:
Every Good Band Deserves Fans And Cash.

Every Good Band is E G# B
And Cash. Everyā€¦ is A C# E and so on.

You still need to work out sharps on notes but thatā€™s not too difficult if you remember my other favourite acronym Father Charles Goes Down And Ends Battle (order of Sharps. One # starting at F.

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D F A is Dm. When you stack 3rds from the parent scale the chord sequence is M m m M M m deminished .

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The diagram shows seven repeats of the C major scale, extended to two octaves, each having three notes shown in large, bold font. Those notes are chosen by starting at C and then counting along the scale in thirds (count one, miss one - every other note). The three notes respectively form the notes of the triads that can be derived from the C major scale.
Stacking thirds simply means - from any given start point - count one, miss one. The musical intervals this process selects are all thirds. Hence we call it stacking thirds.

You have a misunderstanding here. The C major scale (all major scales) use seven notes following the formula Tone-Tone-Semitone-Tone-Tone-Tone-Semitone. They do not use all twelve notes from around the Note Circle. Your error has landed you on the incorrect notes for a C major triad.

Correction needed. The D major scale is:
D, E, F#, G, A, B, C#

I hope that helps.
Cheers :smiley:
| Richard | JustinGuitar Approved Teacher, Official Guide & Moderator

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Is the regular Open A chord a 2nd Inversion as itā€™s form from lowest to highest note is
E A C#?

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An open A chord uses 5 strings so the notes are A E A C# E so no itā€™s not a 2nd inversion. If you where to only strum the 3 fretted notes it would be a 2nd inversion. If you where to play the open E string it would be an A/E but could be considered the 2nd inversion.

All Major and minor chord are considered triads, chords containing 3 notes. Even the A Barre Chord is a triad because it uses only 3 notes over 6 strings A E A C# E A using the note A 3 times and the note E twice.

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Thanks!

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Im currently half way through the triad theory course, (jumbled triads) it seems that knowing where all the notes are on the fretboard is pretty important.
I have a good grasp of triad theory and am nearly fluent in remembering the notes for major minor augmented and diminished but finding them on the neck is quite slow.
My question is should I stop learning anything else until I have a good grasp of where all the notes are on the fretboard or should I carry on with the course and continue learning the note positions as I go along?

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Just carry on Gary. All guitar learning is so interrelated that it all ties in together.
Being competent finding notes on the fretboard in real time/ playing situations is just going to be a progressive thing.

I found that triads were, are still are, a brilliant way of increasing that competency. They really opened up the fretboard for me. All the best.

Cheers, Shane

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Cheers, I will batter on through then. It is taking me a while to fully grasp everything but getting there 1 step at a time even if I do have to go back 3 and resume again lol

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All good Gary. I believe this is the way for all of us; progressing gradually over a period of time, from Knowledge to Competence.

I remember nearly a couple of years ago, after about 6 months of very structured, and solid work on triads, I thought to myself,
ā€œGood boy. I now know all the major and minor triads across all 4 string sets. I can also derive diminished, augmented triads from theseā€. And I did have that knowledge and some ability to play them OK in progressions, songs etc.
However, over 18 months onwards to today, I can look back and see that yes, I had the knowledge somewhat, but not the COMPETENCY; that takes considerably more time, as you simply keep doing it, experimenting, and experiencing it in numerous contexts.

Its only fairly recently that Iā€™m starting to really feel reasonably competent with triads; being able access them pretty quickly, making my own up on the fly etc.
And yet I still feel Iā€™m at a relatively foundational level, as thereā€™s so much more ahead.

I believe its a crucial distinction to be mindful of in all endeavours. Knowledge and Competence. Can instill patience, persistence, and a sense of context.

Cheers, Shane

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would this inversions also apply to that of Power chords which only consist of the root and the 5th, would there be only one inversion on a power chord due to its two notes which is the 2nd inversion? I think I saw power chord names with / on it before, somewhere, Iā€™m not actually sure so I could be wrong or Iā€™m guessing inversions only applies to chords with all 135 on it. Just correct me if Iā€™m wrong :slight_smile:

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Hi Neil, you can totally invert power chords. Here is an example on the three thickest strings:
6th string - 7th fret; 5th string - 9th fret; 4th string - 9th fret => thatā€™s your standard B power chord
Change the fret of the 5th string to:
6th string - 7th fret; 5th string - 7th fret; 4th string - 9th fret => thatā€™s an E power chord inverted with the 5 in the base, then 1 and 5 again (so 5 is fretted twice)
And if you play the 6th string open (5th still on 7th and 4th on 9th) then you have another E power chord with 1 - 1 - 5 .
And so one! Mixes things up and varies the sound.
Here is a good example of how Dave Grohl uses it: Walk (acoustic+live)
He plays the first part of the song with four power chords without moving his position much. Billy Gibbons (ZZ Top) does similar things (economics of movement), as I am sure loads of other people do, too, these are just the two that I am aware of.

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Yes, technically you can think of it like that but calling a power chord an inversion is not common parlance.