Throwing this out there for input from our well-seasoned players.
Iām at the point in the journey, three years in and solid intermediate, mostly noodling but playing cover songs with pentatonic melodies. However, my natural tempo is 60-100bpm and I tend to take songs played at a much faster speed and turn them into ballads. As Justin says if it sounds good itās good :).
I like what Iām coming up with and have convinced myself itās just me coming through on the guitar. Nowhere have I seen it written that a song has to be played the way one artist plays it (i.e Joe Cocker With a Little Help from my friends :))
The problem is if I go beyond playing for my dog in my office to a picking circle and play a song that everyone knows but I play it my way I end up playing by myself with everyone looking at me with their mouths wide open.
Any thoughts or suggestions for the veterans out there? Iām assuming that I am in a transition stage and will eventually pick up the tempoā¦maybe.
Maybe try learning some Balladsb or write your own songs. Just because you think it sounds good doesnāt mean everyone else does. Popular songs are popular for a reason.
Hi Roch, when I play a cover, it never sounds the same as the original, that is not the point. I enjoy playing and if a song is sung to my personal taste, and it does sound good then, fine. No problem.
Play a song as you wish to, it matters not if it does not sound as the original did.
There are two situations here Roch. When playing and singing a song for your own pleasure then of course anything goes. Do your own thing, add embellishments, change the tempo, change the key, even change the melody a little.
However if playing for others and you want them to join in playing and/or singing then clearly you have to play the version that everyone knows or as you say in your post ā¦ā¦
I donāt think that just slowing down makes a song a good ballad. As @sairfingers said there a many things you can rearrange to make the song sound more interesting for you and then of course for the audience. I would suggest to record yourself and listen critically to your recording. Maybe you could post one of your recordings here in the forum. Iām sure youāll get some valuable tips.
100%. However, you should choose the tempo of the song that you like best, not be forced into playing it slowly because you donāt have the skill to play it faster. That is not a choice; itās a limitation.
I would continue to work on technique that will allow you to play the songs faster, if you so choose
Too true. In the jam groups I play in, much grumbling ensues if the person āleadingā a particular song plays it too fast or too slow or starts playing one version when the group expects another.
Some folks have begun bringing bluetooth speakers so we can play along with recordings if thereās the slightest question about a song. That goes a really long way to cutting out those tempo complaints.
Right now, when I play at home, I strive to play along with a recording. In part because it keeps me honest about the tempo, but also because it helps me practice keeping a consistent rhythm and to play that way with a lot of other sounds (the rest of the band, vocals, etc). Iām largely not trying to make a song āmy ownā too much if itās going to push it outside the recording Iām trying to play along to. But I will make some tweaks that stay within that, which I enjoy.
On āItās Good To Be Kingā by Tom Petty, what I play is some combination of keyboard and rhythm guitar parts, because the keyboard has the signature riffs in that one. My instructor mapped out how to play most of that, but I made some adjustments to what he wrote down because I like them better.
On āLast Kissā by Pearl Jam, I throw in a percussive palm mute in place of the second measure of G at the end of each verse and chorus that just sound good, but none of the instructional vids Iāve watched show playing it that way. I do it because I like it.
Both of those changes let me do my own thing but also allow me to keep the song within the bounds of a particular recording. One of my jam groups wants to do āLast Kissā during our next jam so I shared my song sheet for it yesterday and explained my palm mute variation from the instructional video that someone else shared (which I have noted in the song sheet I shared so I wanted them to know what was going on). Weāll see how it goes. I plan to bring my BT speaker and a recording of the song. I have a feeling Iām going to be tapped to lead it because I mentioned that Iāve been playing it and that itās one of two songs I can sing badly while playing.
I totally get it regarding a ācomfortableā tempo, too. I definitely have my preferences and that range tends to be in the 60-120bpm range. I occasionally jam with ukulele folks and some of them like to push past 200bpm. I just canāt keep up with that yet. When they start doing that stuff, I start playing half and whole notes but sometimes the chord changes are still happening too fast for me and I have to drop out or maybe just do something percussive.
Iām a big fan of players chosing for making the song their own instead of focussing on replicating the original.
If you attempt to mimic the original, you will have to be damn good and people will still compare. Is the song your expression or just you ādoing workā?
The audience actually appreciated fresh newtakes on songs they know and youāll be able to express yourself through your music.
Also, youāre building a platform to build on. A song you start to learn today ban grow over a course of years.
What you are doing sounds fine (even preferable) to me.
In the context of multiple songs, make sure you have some variations (strum style, sing style, tempo, ā¦ avoid giving the impression that you apply a similar ātemplateā to your renditions.If it helps, mix up the order of the songs to provide contrast to keep your audience sharp.
When playing on your own, make the song your own. No rules, if it sounds good itās good.
When playing with a group and other people, you have to stick as close the original as possible.
As Stitch said in his post, there is a reason why a song is popular, and yes, that is the reason I love the songs I do. (Sitch, you always have a way of cutting through the clutter.)
Made me look back at the playing circles I have attended, most, if not everybody has an ipad or phone following along on Guitar Pro.
So I got out the metronome and backing track last night and went to work. The song I am working on and have had on my playlist since day 1 three years ago is Dead Flowers. Easy song right? Three chords, how hard can it be? lol
After playing it for a while I was up to tempo and playing the verses and choruses at speed. Plucking away a few notes on the D major pentatonic.
Then came the singingā¦thatās when things slowed waaaaay down. Analyzing my other covers it seems to be the same pattern. Guess I need to learn to sing the song as well as I play it and then put the two together. Although I know I can practice Dead Flowers the rest of my days and will never get it RIGHT!
Appreciate all the great feedback, this has given me more structure and direction.
I mentioned I am working on Dead Flowers and what I have done is start the song at the bottom playing open cowboy chords and then shift up to the center of the fretboard so I can pluck some of the pentatonic notes.
Totally agree, a song you love has a long life and there is always room for improvement.
If singing is your issue them Iād suggest putting the guitar down and practice singing with the original. Dead flowers is a pretty slow song to begin with but the phasing in the vocals most likely whats giving you trouble.
You donāt need to sing exactly like Mic but you need to get the phasing in time to the music.
Maybe try GnRās version. Itās more of a sing along.
Spoke to a very talented pianist this afternoon about practicing. He told me the difference between being good and great is being good you practice until you donāt make mistakes.
Being great involves practice until you canāt get it wrong .
sticktothemuse, sounds like the issue is mostly with your strumming hand. Slow the strum down when youāre playing with a group. Instead of doing anything fancy you can do at slower speeds, like throwing in bass notes, etc., or hammer-ons and pull-offs, keep it simple with plain old strums. You can still keep up the tempo by playing strums on the up and down beats (beats 1,2,3, and 4 for example) instead of constantly playing 1/8 note strums. Most likely, when playing in a group, youāre blending in and not the star soloist, so if you are keeping up, even if playing less, you will sound good and enjoy it. The speed will come and one day youāll notice you added the ornamentation without even thinking about it. Sometimes less is more. I have the same issue. My brain canāt think fast enough at this same stage you appear to be in to play whatās happening in the present, wonder how I sounded in the last measure, and wondering if I can make the future bars happen well. I think about it too much sometimes. Thatās me though. Could be a touch of stage fright too when you play with others. Theyāre probably thinking the same thing, wondering if theyāre good enough and can they keep up. I bet theyāre thrilled when you call out a slower song or tune. You can play a gazillion songs at 60-100 bpm too. Not sure what genre of music youāre playing that requires you to play faster than that. Bluegrass maybe? Thatās warp-speed stuff for me.
I donāt think you need to stick to the original āas close as possibleā but at least recognizably the same song, and if there are multiple covers of it out there, make it clear which version youāre playing.
In my jam groups, folks donāt play exactly the same stuff. But theyāre at least playing the same basic chord progressions and the same tempo. The groups Iām in both have folks who only fingerpick - they donāt strum. But mixing fingerpicking in with folks strumming sounds pretty good, actually. And some folks play lots of little embellishments on their chords, and as long as they arenāt overpowering the entire group (with volume), that fits in with the group pretty well, too.
Singing is HARD. The autopilot stuff is definitely the correct direction to go. For me, getting the guitar parts set first is what needs to happen. I can be iffy on the lyrics but as long as I have the general idea and the lyrics in front of me, I am fine. But I need to be able to handle the guitar part practically blindfolded before I can add any singing whatsoever. In my guitar group, nobody is good at singing while playing. If you want to sing along, at least for now, Iād limit any solo additions. I expect youāre going to need to work up to adding those in. So work on getting your autopilot straightened out so you can play AND sing at tempo. And then once you can do that, work in your solos.
Are you sure folks are using Guitar Pro on their tablets? I like to use GP when learning something new and on the complex side. But itās WAY too cluttered for a song circle sing-along jam. I use a songbook app that just shows simple songsheets or at most, basic tabs for little riffs. Other folks in my group just pull up a pdf of the same thing on their device. And quite a few others still prefer binders with paper pages.
Appreciate all the great guidance from everyone. Iāll try to address some of the comments- sorry if I donāt speak to all but I do read all your comments and take them to heart.
Autopilot- my routine which I started last year and got lax on is to sing the songs Iām working on when I walk the dog every morning. This really helps me memorize the lyrics and the tune. Then I work on the chord progression and try to mesh the two.
Picking Circles- Nate, youāre probably right. The group may not be using GP but many seem to have tablets and whether they are looking at PDF files or something else I am not sure. I started going to a picking circle in North Texas. These guys (and gals) are good, I mean REAL good! My first session I did three songs that everybody knew, Ripple, Margaritaville and Knocking on Heavens Door. It went great!! I had lots of support, and the group carried me through. The next week, not so good. I crashed and burned BIG time! I did three songs by JJ Cale I figured everyone would know. Either they didnāt know the songs or couldnāt recognize the song because of my off tempo. It was a disaster. I was standing there with my pants down in front of everybody. I havenāt been back. I suffer from stage fright, and this session didnāt help, but I am determined and will try it again.
Lesson learned from my previous life in the corporate world, never go into a meeting with a presentation without having lined up a few allies. Because I was new to the group I didnāt know anyone that I could collaborate with before the session.
Jim, good point. I really need to get the basics down before I try to embellish. I realized one thing in the picking circle though, no one really cares about what youāre playing unless you are one of the shining stars. Most people are thinking about their performance.
Agree, some variety is good in an ensemble. When in Colorado this summer I played with my Baby Taylor and because it had quite a different sound to the other full-size guitars it added some variety. I thought it was a nice addition.
Thatās not too dissimilar from my first attempt at playing with the local group. My first time there I crashed HARD. It was awhile before I went back, but in the meantime I continued to learn and practice. Even still, when I did go back, I struggled with some songs. But I did well with some others, so that was encouraging. I kept going back and I keep getting better.
My local group has a songbook that they tend to pull from. So repeat visits tend to get at least some song repetition. But thereās frequently something new. So one of the skills Iāve been building has been listening to whatās being played and then figuring out what I should play to go along with the group. Stinkers pop up regularly. Everybody picks something at some point that bombs in the group. Sometimes because nobody knows it. Others because the rhythm is harder to find. Many times it bombs because nobody knows it well enough to sing and play that song (even if the singing is really only mumbling), and the singing is a really helpful reference to keep track of where you are.
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