nice to see you chime in 
!! Time and feel win every time but we all have to get there at the same time.
Playing the song and counting where the two things that initially caught my attention about your site!!
Guitarist (i think) biggest gripe about drummers - they play to loud and either to fast or too slow
Drummers about guitarist - Take forever to tune-up and they use some kind of weird secret math counting 1-4
THATāS worth a lesson indeed Maestro!
3 Likes
@madmetal Timmy,
Thereās a lot of interesting prompting in your OP.
My preference is to play on feel, regardless of whether Iām on keys, bass, or guitar.
Itās always feel at a gig. In an exception to the rule I may have counted once or twice in the chorus of Highway to Hell at a recent gig 
. It was an on the day decision to do that song though, so limited practice was a likely contributor.
Iām not naturally a counter (I know this from my piano lessons aged about 7 - 12). I have learned to count as my musical journey has continued. If I donāt get a rhythm or groove quickly (more about groove later), then the metronome comes out and does its thing along with a bit of foot tapping. If Iām really struggling then Iāll end up doing a bit of thigh slapping. Incidentally lām not a great foot tapper either, I suspect also due to piano and the feet being used for pedal duties.
I think bass and drums as ārhythm sectionā creates a somewhat unrepresentative picture of what bass and drums are doing. I prefer to think of us (bass head on at this point) as the āgroove sectionā. There is more about that here if you are interested in the thoughts of myself and others on that topic. Roles in a band
2 Likes
Love this thread Timmy! And reading all the different approaches!
I count when I practice and use the Metronome quite a lot; I also work on myself to be able to just let it happen, as Justin says, and gradually Iām learning to trust and rely on my feeling. Tapping my foot gives me confidence.
2 Likes
Mostly by feel
Playing mostly by feel myself, Iāve really been trying to lock down my rhythm lately, and Malcolm Youngās name keeps popping up everywhere. The guy was easily one of the best, and his consistency came right down to his insane strumming and timing. Thatās definitely how I view it now, though a few embellishments along the way never hurt since music is all about feel anyway. Looking forward to seeing what Justin and the team have to say about such a great topic!
1 Like
shhh! Guitars are just icing on the cake 
I remember seeing Spyro Gyra and Richie Morales was playing drums. The song did that whole break down to just bass\drums\percussion then just Morales. He carried both song both melodically and rhythmically by himself.
Think it was 6-9 months before i could even try to play again but set a whole new outlook as to what that role embraced.
Yes, so bass and tubs lay down the ārhythm frame workā but we are more then time keepers and others are equally a part of the groove and flow. Its all gumbo stew, and you cant say well its just the tomatoes part to do this one thing. We all cook and simmer together over the fire.
From my earliest days learning organ (age about 10) to my current mid-60s guitar and keyboard work, Iāve been resistant to counting. I find it very difficult to do and so Iām very much in the āfeelā camp. Itās probably something I should work on but given limited time and a veritable pantheon of music topics it doesnāt seem a priority. A few years back I was recording a solo for a friendās project and kept dropping a beat; he encouraged me to count it which fixed the problem. But that was a rare exception to the rule.
1 Like
Iām firmly in the ācount it outā camp, unless itās smth. completely ridiculous. I need to understand what Iām doing, need to know when comes what, etc. Once I understand it, I can reproduce it, and will remember it even when I havenāt played it in a while. My āfeel itā moment comes later, when the rhythm is already on the way to become automatic.
I can play by feel, and sometimes I do so when Iām trying to figure out what kind of strumming to use for a song, experiment with different patterns, see what comes naturally, that kind of thing. But even then, once I got something I like, I count it out so I can remember it for the next time.
About the metronome, I use it for a whole practice session or two when I remember it exists, and I think itās time to see how off I am on some songs. Then I put it away again for a while.
1 Like
Hi Eva
That is the way my brain works as well. I like the āframeworkā to start from and then become more fluent with feel.
Just the other day, had the extreme pleasure of working with a vocalist that had a wonderful phrasing (tenor singing blues). She has a great way of really drawing out that 3-4 count, very behind the beat.
It was truly a lesson in when feel ruled over count. Metronome still works for me as a practice check making sure the feel doesnāt get sloppy.
Thanks for the input, really interesting to hear everyoneās perspective, experiences and reasons why
Hey David,
One friend that mentors me will send files with a āi played 103 bpmā or whatever. Recording and mics donāt lie, when one misses something there it is.
We are both navigating the same transition, engineer (software, then machinist) to music & home recording. āHome recordingā seems a disservice as being an engineer, i suspect you are always striving to achieve the best possible. Curious what kind of studio setup you have.
Iāve had to start practicing verbally counting the beat as I practice to improve focus and staying in time. Iād never done that, so it was very hard, but, like many things, practice makes it easier. And my timing improves. Then, once I get it, I can go back to playing by feel, but Iām also listening more carefully.
1 Like
My friend sends me a WAV for a new song project and I usually have to go back and ask for key sig and BPM so I can set up my DAW to match. But the dropping a beat thing was all me: we were in his space and I kept repeating a phrase of the solo one less time than I needed to.
Current setup is:
- Tracktion Waveform Pro 13.5 + a couple of third party plugins
- Yamaha AG06 mixer / audio interface
- Arturia Keylab Essential mk3 controller (49 or 61 key, donāt recall ATM)
- Boss Katana 50 Mk ii amp
- Digitech RP255 multi-effects pedal
- Pair of nearfield monitors (forget the brand / model)
- A couple of basic mics, half-dozen guitars
- A Lava lamp
Other than voice and acoustic guitars everything is either direct input or in-the-box. All of this is so far beyond the Fostex X-15 4-track cassette unit I had in the 80s as to be complete magic, which is great. OTOH thereās never enough time to really learn how to make maximum use of the tools on hand. Anyway, some results are available on my Soundcloud page: Stream David Lemire music | Listen to songs, albums, playlists for free on SoundCloud