Faith Legacy vs Martin D10E

[stitch]

Mostly Blues, Southern Rock and classic Rock but I do jam a lot (at least once1 a week) with other people who play country, 90’s rock and the standard 60’s stuff.

Taylor mass produces guitar in two plants one in Mexico and one in California at about 130000 a year, where Gibson Acoustic guitars are made in a small plant in Bozeman Montana under 20000
a year. They are building a new larger plant in Bozeman so they may be easier to get once it’s completed. On the electric side Gibson builds about 150000+ in their plant in Nashville Tennessee Martin is like Taylor they have 2 plants on in Mexico and on in Nazareth Pennsylvania and produce about the same amount.

That’s why Gibson acoustics are so hard to find outside the US and Canada

[vanian]

Thanks @stitch, I wasn’t aware of the numbers they were producing or exactly where they were based and such/ I knew Gibson were a Made in US-of-A but i didn’t know if they had factories elsewhere. I suppose also the less they make, maybe the more attention they give instead of churning them out. I’m learning as I go along, but I always had Gibson, Taylor and Martin as the main ones to wish for but it seems there’s so many quality makers out that are probably as good as or better even. One thing I’ve got from this thread is to expand my horizons in what’s considered great. To be fair I never thought I’d be even considering a Faith or other lesser known brands over a Martin. I would have said hands down, got to be the Martin. but the Faith has it’s nose in front I think. I’ve arranged a trip to the guitar shop this weekend to try some - they almost certainly won’t have the model i want, but I can get a taste of the Faiths, some Road Series Martins, and maybe some of the others that were mentioned above like the Yamaha or such. It’s still mainly between the two models in the title, but let’s see if im swayed somewhere else tomorrow or Sunday

I’m really dragging this one out, aren’t I
Keep up your fun playing, it sounds like your playing a lot there!

[Notter]

I mentioned in my post before about the staff not being surprised with my choice. One of their comments was that an acoustic only brand will usually be a better shout.

Again I have no way near enough experience or knowledge to validate that but I suppose my ears recognised something.

It all comes back to playing and testing imo. Similar to when I upgraded my electric, I had a preferred option but booked others in the price range to try. The diversity in playability and sound is big, and the reality is that you are unique from everyone else so using us, and online research, as a means to a shortlist is great, but that final call has to be yours from playing that shortlist.

Must admit I’m kind of excited for you

[vanian]

Yeah as i say, they were pushing me to the Faiths too. My local is PMT, I don’t know if they have something going on with Faith as they seem to push them on their site and in store, but i guess not and they do seem to be genuinely fans of theirs.
I’m also not experienced enough to know what is good or not, but as it goes if it sounds good to our own ears, then it’s good. That’s the main thing - but just a shame we can’t always get to hold the ones we want to try so we have to rely a little on word of mouth and forums such as this. The reason i made this thread was simply there were no online comparison discussions or reviews between these two models, or even between these two brands. So, had to make one myself The best i could find was a YouTube review of these two models separately but by the same channel.

Here’s one for you, do you think upgrading an electric makes as big a difference as upgrading an acoustic? I’m sure it’s very noticeable, but (and i don’t really do much on my electric) I’ve always figured with an electric i can mess with the sound via my modelling amp, where an acoustic is what it is. Maybe that should be a separate thread for someone. So I’ve never really had a big urge to change my basic Yamaha Pacifica… Only to get my Gretsch hollow body, as Gretsch have their own kinda twangy sound and i liked the idea of an in between electric and acoustic thing… plus I think Gretsch guitars look fantastic. Though I’ve never really been very good at figuring out how to get the tone i want on the amp
But yes, I’m certain really there’s a big difference too when upgrading electrics. I fancy a Les Paul style - but not gonna happen… Don’t get me started again… !

I remember you picked a nice looking electric too, i believe. I remember it from your vid.

@Notter

Must admit I’m kind of excited for you

I’m excited for me too…haha. Hey, it might be your turn again soon, I’ll look out for the thread

[Notter]

Difficult question really on upgrading electric vs acoustic. And again, I’m absolutely no expert!

Looking at my own purchases, both upgrades were similar value wise, moving from a ~£200 guitar to just under £1k. The difference was big for both. Regardless of tones etc I noticed the playability difference, fret finishing, fingerboard and neck quality, balance etc. Thats why getting it in your hands, again imo, is crucial. You may dislike the feeling of a Faith, even if it sounds great, it’s just what worked for me.

Whereas my first electric was a treat for me for getting through grade 1, and I’ll love it (in absence) I never felt it was a real keeper. These 2 I have now will 100% stay with me regardless. That’s what I’d be looking for at this pricing.

I am consciously trying to not just say, “get what I’ve got, it’s great” because I’ve fallen into that trap before, not with guitars, in tech and other kit. Where you can there’s no substitute for hands on assessment.

Bit serious there! Whatever your shortlist, take your time, play them and love your choice

[vanian]

I think we’ve gone about it in a similar way, starting with decent but entry level gear and since we’ve levelled up our skills we want a nice instrument to see us for a longer term knowing that we’ll use it daily.
That is a great point, that I overlooked, it’s not just about the sound but a lot about the playability and feel. That’s worth upgrading for, for sure. Thinking of my electric I not sure I could configure a better sound, but mine does feel like an entry level when it comes to playability.
So when I go I’ll have to pay attention to the comfort and feeling. I hope the similar models will give me an idea on my specific choices (I know the Legacy isn’t in stock, and they didn’t have a D10E last time). You have a very nice acoustic and a super electric so you’re well set there now I think
Right, my acoustic was similar to your electric, I knew it would just be for a couple of years to see if i could get anywhere, or give up. Now I know I’ll be sticking with it long term so looking at something nicer Having nice gear encourages us to play too.
Have a great weekend.

[vanian]

Ok, so guess where I’ve been today?

Here’s my experience while it’s fresh in my mind (well as fresh as my mind allows).

Of course, they didn’t have the models I’m interested in, but they had the Legacy in Earth size (the 2nd guitar on top, with a more honey colour). And the ones towards the back up top, @Notter should recognise They’re the Blood Moon Neptunes and similar, there’s a smaller Venus in there.

And for Martins, I they had a few but no D10E. So i tried another one in the Road series. I can’t remember the model, it was “00” something I think.
The shop was kinda busy which i thought would put me off playing them, but that made it easier since it wasn’t just me… Though they were playing a drum heavy track over the speakers which didn’t help.
So I tried the Martin first, but honestly I didn’t feel comfortable at all, worse than my Yamaha… though the tone was fine. I think maybe it had a too high action or something. It was needing a good press one the first few frets. I could get it setup but that’s my feeling playing it fresh off the shelf.

There were no staff around at first but I got talking with another guy who asked what guitar I was holding (the Martin). He turned his nose up at the Martin and said he was here for the Faiths, though he was looking at the Blood Moon Neptune too he was just choosing which ‘colour’. I should say im not sure how knowledgable he was or if like me he was going on what he’s researched as he said he’d been going through lots of videos etc.

So then I tried some of the Faiths, the Neptune Blood Moon first, and that felt instantly playable and comfortable. And it sounded nice too, in fact this one probably was the best sounding one that i tried today. Then i tried the Venus, which was also just as comfortable and played easily, and a fine tone too, but I preferred the larger size venus to hold.
Then I tried the Legacy range, but they only had the Earth size, which i believe is a bit smaller. Also nice to play but the tone was maybe slightly less that the Neptune.

I saw a few others, I saw the Gibson G45, but i didn’t try it as I knew i wasn’t going to buy it, not having electronics. Actually I should have tried it anyway, just to see how it is and how the extra sound hole on top sounds.

Then I remembered the recommendation of the Yamaha LL series. Im not sure which one it was that i tried but it’s price was 1400-ish. It was ok, but if I’m honest it felt the same as playing my Yamaha APX. That’s not to say i didn’t like it, it was good but I didn’t feel any difference with it.
Oh i also tried a Taylor 214. That was quite nice, i thought it played well and had a nice tone too. But the shape didn’t feel quite right on my lap. But that was quite nice.

I asked to play a 45mm but the staff member didn’t know if he had any. But he offered to ship in a Legacy Mars to try, which is what im looking at. So i said ok he can order one for me to have a look at, only if it’s not inconvenient. So he did that but asked for £200 refundable deposit - so i was…“erm, no”. But he said that’s fine and just did it anyway without cost.

Oh and I asked him if he was familiar with the D10E. He said yes, so i asked how it compares with the Faiths. He said, Faith, no contest. Maybe it’s company line but that’s what the previous guy said. He said the Faiths are fantastic and just like the other customer I think his words were the Martin is just a box really. But yet again, someone saying the Faiths are super.

It’s hard to ignore when I haven’t heard a bad word on the Faith, in fact just high praise. And the Martin (at least that model/range) seems mixed responses. And my own playing today, and I can only speak for me, was that all the Faiths I tried played very well and naturally. As well as sounding good too.

So looks as if it’s going to be the Faith. However, the Blood Moon neptune was the best sounding and playing in the ones I tried today that was the winner. But the Legacy Earth was only slightly behind and just on the tone. The Mars dreadnaught size would probably bring a bit more to the tone . Plus the Blood Moon doesn’t have the 45mm neck. I could go for the slimmer neck Blood Moon, it played well, but I think I’d benefit from the 45mm. I think it’s between those too and I’ll probably still end up on the Legacy Mars (or better still Legacy Neptune - if i can find one at a better price, right now the Mars is the one within budget, and it’s shape would be equally fine i think). So maybe the Mars. But if i can’t get one, the Neptune, non-legacy version would be totally acceptable too.

I think I may have to rule out the Martin, sadly. Probably the mid and higher range Martins are the ones to get rather than the entry level ones, I’m sure they’d be great, but quite a way out of my budget.

From everything I’ve heard and my own trying today, it seems you can’t really go wrong with a Faith (he says, and then no doubt it goes wrong… ).

[Notter]

@vanian thanks for sharing that detailed write up, super interesting read and, above all, I’m pleased you felt happy playing and trying out such a range.

It looks and sounds like you’ve got a good store there to back you up whatever you buy. To order in anyway without taking the deposit shows faith(!) and an eye on customer satisfaction. What’s the store out of interest?

Of course I’m also pleased you liked the Faiths you tried, your description of the feel and tone is a carbon copy of my own experience! So are you discounting the Martin entirely now?

Exciting stuff!

[vanian]

Yes it was good, I took all your advice and made sure to try out as much as I could. I think i was in there an hour, and glad I didn’t go all introvert and not play much. And having a natter with a customer too, just like the conversation we’ve had here over the past few days.

I’d say I’ve discounted the D10E. But I still think Martin is a great brand and a little sad that I probably won’t end up having one but that’s ok too, I’ve realised there’s plenty more fish in the sea (well, rather too many!). So, now I’m just making my final decision. It’ll be the Legacy, but a Mars or a Neptune (dreadnaught or baby jumbo)? There’s a £200 price difference for basically getting a cutaway. But I think I prefer the Neptune - i just haven’t heard a Mars- but that 200 makes it out of my budget. However, that windfall $$$ coming up (in theory), and since this is going to be ‘the’ guitar for the long term, maybe I should bite the bullet and get the right one. Ironic how the cutaway makes it more So nearly there! You can all breathe a sigh of relief - almost…

[vanian]

Sorry, it was PMT, the store. Forgot to answer you…

[stitch]

@vanian

I think I may have to rule out the Martin, sadly. Probably the mid and higher range Martins are the ones to get rather than the entry level ones, I’m sure they’d be great, but quite a way out of my budget.

The way I look at Martin and Taylor is you pay about $500 for the name on the head stock. So if you take the price of the D10e subtract $500 and then go and play the guitars in that price range you’ll have a good comparison. It works the other way as well. Take the price of the Faith add $500 to it and play the Martins in that price range and you’ll have a good comparison.

Once you get up to the $3000 - $5000 price range then it start to level out dollar to dollar.

[vanian]

@stitch

The way I look at Martin and Taylor is you pay about $500 for the name on the head stock.

I’d agree with you. I think if i put that $500 to increase the budget (or a bit more) there’d be a fantastic Martin waiting for me, if you see what I mean. I don’t believe for a moment that Martins aren’t great. Just for them, you have to be prepared to put your hand deeper into the pocket. They have a very prestigious name so we can’t really blame them for the high price
Unfortunately my wallet is less presitigious

The Taylor 214 I tried was around the right budget, and it was very good. I’d recommend this one to anyone looking for such a guitar. But that one wasn’t quite for me I think.

The D10E equivalent I tried, I think you hit it on the head that if it were than 400 or 500 less that would make a great guitar at that price, and as I say with a better setup it would probably have been easier to play, i think it was rather high. But I dont know that so i have to go on that try. The one i tried last time was much better, but i don’t know the model.
But you’re spot on, that range is probably in truth more a 5 or 600 level.
In fairness I’m comparing the top end range of one brand with the very entry level of the other prestigious one so I think the result is probably to be expected. And kudos to Faith i think they’ve made a cracking range of guitars for the price, they’re probably out performing at that price range.

And I think the Taylor i tried was fairly priced Well, on my humble level of judgement anyway. It was a great guitar.

And if i had a 3000/5000 budget I’m almost certain I’d be coming back with a Martin.

[vanian]

I’ve gone for the Legacy Neptune … nervous smile.
Not having heard the Mars, and knowing the Neptune is great, I’ll play safe. It’s over budget but I’d better get one I know is nice, and with a cutaway. Don’t want buyer’s remorse. And if Google comes through with the refund in January, as it should, that will significantly take the sting out of me breaking the budget.

[Notter]

Good for you mate, be sure to show off when you get it and also to show us how she sounds! Bet you can’t wait now😂

[Socio]

@vanian

I’ve gone for the Legacy Neptune

Men are from mars, woman are from venus, guitar gods are from neptune relax, I’m sure you will have many years of enjoyment with the new guitar.

[vanian]

@Notter

Bet you can’t wait now😂

Well I’m going to have to wait First for the delivery, and also it’s a bit of a birthday treat for me - and I am a good boy, I won’t open it until then. But only just 2 weeks.

I’ll let you know how it is, and maybe put some pics to show it off (though it’s not as much of a looker as yours @Notter).

@Socio

guitar gods are from neptune

At this price, it darn well better make me a guitar god or i want a refund

Just want to say a big thanks to everyone for all the advice (especially @notter and @stitch), it has defintely helped me make up my mind, and put me in the right direction. I think I’ve made the right choice.

[Socio]

@stitch

The J45 and Hummingbird were killer.

If you were to have taken one of them home with you which would it have been?

[stitch]

The J45 was $3500 and the Hummingbird was just over $5000 so if money was off the table it would still be a hard decision. I have a soft spot for J45’s. If you look at my avitar the guitar on the left is my friends J45 natural and I have a J35 so have lots of opertunity to play slop shoulder Gibsons. The Hummingbird may win but if I could choose any Gibson acoustic it would be a Sheryl Crow SJ. I’d have to sell a kidney though the last one I played was almost $7000.

[J.W.C]

If price wasn’t a concern I’d pick this Gibson acoustic:

Gibson | 1942 Banner LG-2

I’ve come to prefer the slightly smaller bodied acoustics (my main acoustic is a Martin OM-35e). For the “price doesn’t matter” Gibsons, I’d also look at the Nathaniel Rateliff LG-2 signature model and the custom shop L-00 Deluxe.

[vanian]

So, I managed to call in at the music store in my office city today. They had the D10E on the wall, as i thought they might. So finally got my grubby little hands on one. I can report that although it had a good tone and volume, it suffered with the same issue as the other road series i tried on Sunday. That is I found it quite hard to play, probably a high action, that’s what it felt like. I had to fight with it a little to get the chords down, and finger picking similar, though I didn’t have much time, very much a first impression. I imagine it’s probably me, and that a more experienced player might find it easier. However, comparing it to the Faiths, they were silky smooth to play. But the D10 did have a nice bold tone and filled the room.

I think also the guitar gods are smiling on me a bit, since the Faith Legacy I ordered on has just gone up in price another £150, so got my order in at the right time it seems. However, that was Sunday and it’s still ‘processing’ on the order so i better not speak too soon. And usually I’m not the lucky type, it’ll probably all go wrong