Hello I'm Kumar, 65+ with first timer struggles

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Having used such forums for other interests, I have a fair idea of how they work and why the same things reappear every few months; I was therefore reluctant to start a new thread on what must be - hopefully - well trodden paths. Having said that! :

By way of introduction: Kumar here, from India and while I have loved to and listened to jazz and the blues for decades, I can neither play any instrument, nor sing to save my life. I have always wanted to be able to play the guitar, what held me back was the thought of having to first learn to play it for an extended time.

But time is what I now have, so I bought myself a simple nylon stringed acoustic Yamaha C40 and found Justin online.

A few questions - on my second day of starting the course, I am up against the D Chord. When I do get it right - occasionally and so determined by picking one string at a time to see that all sound good/true - I look at my hand and it looks totally wrong in a way that even I can see, and realise that in that position, I can count on abused tendons going on strike very soon. But when I aim to get the hand to look about right and feel less cramped, the notes are awful because my fingers just won’t go around all the way and come down on their tips. I suppose I just keep at it - so the question is how many weeks of keeping at it is usually needed before the fingers all learn how to reach out enough and to behave? After how many weeks of daily practice before I look for another way to the solution?

The other question is if it is a good idea to, in parallel, do the work to get the strumming and the rhythm work allied to that side of things going with the other hand? For instance over two half an hour sessions in a day?

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Welcome Kumar!

First, keep in mind this is a marathon not a sprint. Your fingers are not used to doing any of things you are going to be asking of them. Second, if you follow Justin’s course he will have you playing music as early as possible because well, that is where the fun is. That said, if you are frustrated it might make sense to move to the next lesson or two so you can see what is ahead and integrate a few things at a time.

You certainly do not want to move too quickly through and have bunch of poorly learned skills, but you can move around within the modules to get a whole picture to work with. Just don’t move on from the section until you are reasonably confident with the material.

Good Luck!
♫⋆｡♪ ₊˚♬ ﾟ.

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Hi Kumar and welcome.
My advice is stick to the course. Grade 1 module 1 starts with the D chord then the A chord then some simple strumming on the first bar. That’s plenty for now.
By all means have a look at some of the later lessons to give you an idea of what’s ahead but stick to the lesson plan.
As for how many weeks will it take etc etc. we are all different. Take your time and get your basics sorted.

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Thank you! To clarify, I do not wish to rush through chords other than one at a time. My question is how much time should I spend on getting the first chord - D - right before questioning my practice method for D. One week? Four weeks? I can do even more weeks, just need to know what is a reasonable outer limit beyond which I may just be spinning my wheels!

The other question was related to starting work on getting the right hand to work in parallel as opposed to after the recommended number of chords are mastered. Given that I can do two 30 minute session a day for maybe 5 days a week.

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Welcome!

You are correct about that, but we also expect that from new folks. I do encourage you to use the search in the forum area. There is a lot of stuff to read that will be useful for you.

There are a lot of thngs that will happen as you play more. You will get fgamiliar with where to place fingers, mobility will improve a lot as you stretch out stuff that is doing something new, and finger tips will harden. All of these things will come together in a few weeks and make these early struggles seem simple. When I started, I could not get the D to work - fingers were too thick to not mute adjacent strings. Now I laugh at how it is just simple and almost automatic to get a good sounding chord today.

This is somewhat individual. It is based on practice time and dedication to keeping a schedule. It does take time for the body to react to new needs, so be patient with that. Placing fingers mostly in the correct location should be first to start working, then finger tip hardening (3-6 weeks maybe?), then dexterity to bend and stretch fingers individually (3-6 months maybe). You will also eventiually see where you need to stretch and where you can be sloppy about it. Those lessons are far down your road, so learn the precise way initially.

It is highly important to avoid over-stressing your body. You need to be mindful of what is painful and what is encouraging a change in how you can move. You want to work on the moving part, and avoid the pain. Pain is an indicator of stressing things too much and will likely end in injury. There are a lot of questions on the forums about pain and stretching and other related topics you can search for. I think that the stretching exercises in the “Technique - Fretting Hand” section are good to see early on:
https://www.justinguitar.com/modules/technique-fretting-hand

Lessons have strumming practice items throughout each grade. If your fretting hand is tired, then you can still benefit from working on the strumming and in the not too distand future, strumming patterns. Getting the rhythms moving from your head to your hands is going to be an important portion of playing. You can mute all the strings with your (resting) fretting hand and play along to a rhythm that is in a song, in your head, or part of a metronome or drum track.

Timing the two hands will be a part of everything you do, so you will discover which items you need to work on.

I kept to two 1/2 hour sessions a day for a couple years. I also would supplement with mid-day 10-30 minute sessions if I had time. There is research that suggests shorter intense practice is better than very long sessions. For me, if my mind drifts, I look for something I can concentrate on or stop and do something unrelated.

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The other question is on picks given that my guitar has nylon strings. For a complete beginner with such, it is better to use a pick, or do what is usually done with such guitars, learning the use of fingers for strumming/picking? If a pick, what is a good thickness at this level?

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My personal opinion based on my experience is that combining the left and right hands is more difficult than it gets credit for. For example, you think you’ve got a D chord figured out and yet as soon as you start to apply simple strumming to it, it all falls apart. It’s kind of surprising how much mental energy is involved in getting the fingers to form a chord shape. Just because you can do 30 changes a minute (for example) doesn’t mean that combining the 2 hands will go smoothly. I personally think, at the very start, you’re better off getting the chord changes really good, rather than being pretty horrible at doing chord changes and failing to maintain a rhythm. We all want to progress quickly but the initial stages of guitar are hard.

The other thing I did was concentrated on short practice sessions, multiple times in a day. The longer you play for as a complete beginner, the more your hands will hurt!

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I dont think it is common to use a pick with Nylon strings, but you do probably want to get used to holding and using a pick. I would get a couple different thickness picks and try them out. but to start you will want a very thin pick.

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Justin covers some of that. You will get a lot of opinions here.

I play electric (so steel strings), so the exact pick material is not something I can speak about. I recommend buying one or two sampler packs with different picks in them. I did this and found the one I liked. months later, I was going to a stiffer one from the selection. That continued even now at the 4 year mark where i change picks based on what I feel like and style I am playing.

As for finger style or picked, try both! see what you enjoy. I personally do both and enjoy each for their individual merits.

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I also can’t answer about picks for nylon strings but I started with 0.46mm with my steel string acoustic (very thin and bendy) for strumming and then moved onto 0.60mm which I’ve stuck with since

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For me personally, I would get pretty frustrated if I spend 3-4 weeks just playing a D chord. You have to self assess, what feels right to you to be comfortable to move on, but I think I would try to add the next chord so you would at least have 2 chords and can work on back and forth between the two.

I am thinking too that since you have a nylon strong instrument the nut is likely wider than the ones Justin is using (either steel string acoustic or electric) That said it is easier to place your finger but harder for them to reach further around the neck / fret board. Its not a bad thing just something to be aware of.

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Hi Kumar ,
Welcome here and I wish you a lot of fun :smiling_face_with_sunglasses:

and start slowly so the line won’t break so quickly :blush:

Greetings ,Rogier

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I have realised that the wider board is more of challenge, but on the other hand not touching adjacent strings is less of one, so I expect things to balance out.

Thanks to all that have replied with helpful responses; clearly this community is alive and thriving and is another reason to not get distracted by the huge amount of material available online now outside of Justin. Just what is posted here by fellow travellers is a lot of material to sift through.

Thanks again!

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I have re read all the grade 1 material once, and it looks daunting which is ok, seeing that it is broken up into modules/lessons. But this does leave me with a question as to the Justin estimate that it usually takes 6-8 weeks to move to Grade 2. Does this sound reasonable for folks like me who have learnt no new skills, mental or manual, for over a decade now? Or should I be happy to target that move after maybe doubling those weeks, so as to move only when the cake is well baked? Because as described, that is a quite a foundation, what is said will be in place at the end of Grade 1, as seen from where I am today.

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Hope this provides a little support ?

Greetings

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Yes, Roger, I did read that and based on such I felt that 6-8 weeks to move to Grade 2 seems ambitious. Time will tell, I suppose.

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Hi Kumar, welcome! Of course we’re all different, but I’ll share my story. I’d learned some basic chords (C-D-G-Am-Em) as a kid, as well as a few songs. When I started with Justin I hadn’t played in over 45 years. Even with that background (I still basically remembered the chords, but had many bad habits) I recall it took at least 6 weeks to complete Grade 1. Fast forward 2.5 years and I’m in the middle of Grade 3. Others progress more quickly, but I’m generally satisfied with my progress!

One thing I’ve learned along the way: with some skills I improve quickly, then hit a plateau. Once I feel I’m not improving for a week (give or take a few days), I move on. Each beginner grade has a consolidation where you go review what’s been covered. Usually I find I begin to improve again at this point! And honestly, sometimes a skill doesn’t interest me in the moment, so (after having a go) I set it aside until I have a compelling reason to work on it.

Having quickly read through the thread, and I’d say you’re doing the right things and asking the right questions. Hope to see you around!

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Im quoting Richard :

Beginner Grade 1 has 75 lessons plus essential consolidation. Each lesson requires at least one day of practice time but by the end of Grade 1, in Modules 5, 6 and 7, I would say that to do the learning justice and really get solid in the basics, each lesson should respectfully be given several days or a week or more, each of the seven modules probably starting at one week for module 1 up to several weeks for module 7. I would even (albeit exaggeratedly to make a point) go so far as to suggest treating each module number as a guide to the weeks required.
Modules 1 to 7 = 1 + 2 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 6 + 7 = 28 weeks. That is more than six months just there.
Grade 2 has 68 lessons. And as the learning ramps up the technical challenge and skill, each lesson and each module will require extended time to really get to grips with. I would suggest a similar approach.
Modules 8 to 14 = 8 + 9 + 10 + 11 + 12 + 13 + 14 = 77 weeks. That is more than a year.
Okay - those cumulative totals are on the high side. But I would rather encourage that over the opposite of not taking enough time.

I hope it will answer your question :slight_smile:

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Hi Kumar–
I’m 66, and started last August. I’m in the slow learner lane and it is fine with me. I’m just starting level 2 Beginner. Life in the slow lane :expressionless_face:, no stress here. But I can play along with songs with the chords I’ve learned, and that feels good.

I strongly suggest purchasing the Justin application as there are a lot of songs available from that application with backing tracks and lyrics and which chords to strum when. You can find songs by filtering on difficulty/which chords are in the song/type of song And, best of all, you can slow the speed at which it plays. Get playing at 60% pretty error free and bump it up on up. It is very gratifying to be able to hear your improvements (as well as increasing the speed).

The little changes/minute, while kinda boring, are also a nice feedback kick. “Hey last week I did only 18 in a minute, this week 27–that’s a 50% improvement, why, this practice stuff really works!” (or something like that).

And yes, D is not easy to start with. But, it opens doors to songs, and, as others above wrote, playing songs can be awfully fun. I too started with a Dunlop 0.46mm nylon pick. Buy an assortment pack for a few rupees and see what feels best. There is a stretching exercise that I still do every day and it makes it easier on my hands.

By way of your hand feeling awkward: I too have that and still haven’t settled on how to hold my guitar. Currently, I’m wearing a strap, even when sitting down. The top of the guitar body is just above my left nipple, and the neck is angled up maybe 10-20 degrees. This is higher than many folks like, but my wrist likes it more than other positions I’ve tried.

Pick versus fingers? I started with pure pick and that was fine. I prefer the sound of plucked strings, so I practice with both now.

Think of it not as a race, but rather as a pilgrimage to some place you’ve always wanted to go. It isn’t about getting to the end point, but the whole adventure of meeting folks on the way, new foods, new smells, new sounds, new experiences. The more you play/explore the more you’ll notice. It is a rich trip indeed.

Cheers,
Bruce

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Thank you for all the additional comments posted while I was asleep on the other side of the world; all very useful for being very illuminating in confirming that my steps are in the right direction. At my age, the understanding that the journey is the point of it all gets easier to accept, but while the journey may be of many miles, it helps if each step is generally in the right direction!

By way of further introduction: For a long time, I listened mostly to jazz of the pre 1960s, before all the avant garde stuff started that I still don’t much care for. It took me some time to discover the blues, but now a lot of my listening is also to the likes of Albert King, Magic Slim, all the way to their followers like Clapton/Stevie Ray/Bonamassa etc. The great thing now is that with the likes of Spotify one has access to the whole world of music, at home, for a pittance. And modern HiFi kit is also now excellent value for money - I am not one of those that refuse to listen to digital audio just for purist reasons. So one knows what a well played guitar should sound like, and even watch it in action in the many excellent music videos on YouTube etc.
So one benefit I expect to get from this journey is a much better appreciation of what the legends do - I am not a Taylor Swift fan, but even her guitar playing is something to respect seen from my perspective. Assuming that what one sees on the TV for her videos is not the guitar equivalent of lip-sync!

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