Recording question here, would love to hear how you overcome this.
I have a Dynamic Mic and Katana Amp plugged into the Behringer 202. (I tend to use the amp effects rather than plug guitar directly into the AI then mess around in Reaper with the effects).
So when I record the ambient sound of the strings being strummed is clearly audible on the vocal track no matter how well I position the Mic.
When you listen to both tracks together it may not be a problem but certainly when you isolate and listed to the vocal the strings are clearly audible in between the vocal.
Is there a way to overcome this?
I doubt this is the answer your looking for Craig, but I’ll say it anyway.
Record each track at a different time, separately.
Other than that, you have a very valid question that I don’t know how to overcome either. I get the same thing when I record a mic and a guitar at the same time too. The guitar ends up in the vocal track.
@HappyCat is right Craig that over-dubbing the vocal is the way to make a claen recording. But that is not always what you want to do. I think a ‘live’ recording is generally what people produce for AVOYP rather than a ‘studio’ production.
All I can suggest is to ensure the dynamic mic points as much up and away from the strings as possible. That should maximise the sound rejection and help limit bleed.
Then you can try to turn the mic gain down, and amplify the signal in the DAW post recording. You may find an optimal position and gain setting that produces a decent recording of the vocal but set so the string noise is not picked up and recorded.
It may also be that a heavier pick may help. The lighter picks tend to be more ‘clicky’.
Lastly, perhaps you can play with a lighter touch, and rely more on the amp to get the level up as you want it.
Thanks Jim @HappyCat and Dave @DavidP some very valid points David. I guess I sort of expected that answer but asked anyway in case I was missing something.
I have produced overdubbed before for AVOYP and quite like it that way but I want to have video of it all now too and getting it all to sync up is something I don’t want to have to deal with currently.
Good point about the pick I am using a very thin pick, and the Mic gain on the AI is set nearly to max.
Few things to try, thanks guys.
Following on from what @DavidP said, you also need to be up close and personal with a dynamic ie very close. That will also enable you to reduce the gain on the mic and limiting the bleed. Try and get the base of the mic (where the cable attaches) point at the guitar body, that is the least sensitive direction to pick up sound but heavy strumming and clicky picks may still cut through a little.
So ideally when singing and playing the mic should be as upright as possible.
Advisory - I still get this wrong and position the mic where its comfortable for singing and not optimal to reduce bleed. One day…
Getting things to sync actually is NOT an issue when using a DAW. Pretty much all music production is done the same way with tracks recorded separately to get a very “clean” sound. So you’ll find the process is you record your instrument track, then you set this track to play and your vocal track to record. You hit record in reaper and your guitar track will play and you just sing over it. You will automatically be in sync as you’re recording your vocal as you listen to the guitar track.
Multi tracking is the way to go for studio polished tracks. If you want live then just do what you’re doing. As you say it’s not noticeable when you play the whole performance, only if you listen to your vocal track on it’s own.
I have not done any recording, so this is just an idea from a guy without familiarity.
You can run the vocal portion through a STEM separator. I have been doing this to remove guitar so I can be the only guitar on the song. Sometimes the vocals get a little funny sounding as the distinction between guitar and voice doesn’t get isolated well, so you will want to see how the split turns out. I’m thinking that the low level of the guitar on the vocal track may give you pretty good success.
Search for something like “music separation”. Lots of commercial and free options as well as some good geeky reading if you like that sort of thing.
Great question Craig and I am now going piggyback onto your question and ask, is it the same then for a condenser mic?
A condenser is far most sensitive due its polar pattern and will therefore naturally capture more guitar bleed. But a condenser is ideal for capturing vocal and acoustic together. Proof of concept one of my early OMs on one of my Washburns HBs and singing with a condenser, the string noises is painfully present.
Dynamics tend to be cardoid, condensers omnidirectional.
Hope that helps.
It does, thank you Toby.
I think I’m going to start to move away from the condenser now because I have everything running through the PC so I guess a condenser is no longer necessary.
The condenser is better if you are recording vocals in isolation for a multi track or an acoustic on its own (no amp) or vocals and acoustic with one mic (no amp). Other than that dynamic is best. First two OMs were a condenser and playing electrics by OM3 I had my Shure SM58.
Thank you Toby. I’ll not be getting rid of the condenser but I’ll have a look at the Shure SM58.
This may be worth a read, although my Shure’s (have an “Elvis” as well) are far better than my original cheap Thomann T-Bone dynamic.
Can’t help you with an answer to your question Craig, but even Mr Dylan had your problem.
Hmm. When I use my dynamic mic I get hardly any string noise in the mic. Condensor is a complete different story, it all gets mixed in.
I wonder if different dynamic mics have different directional properties? Maybe your one picks up extra from around the room.
Some great info here so big thanks to all of you for the replies
I’m going to try a few things and check the results, I’m thinking now that the gain is way too high (too far from my face)
I must say that during the recent AVOYP recording both vocal and acoustic with the dynamic, I was pleased with the result and found small position movements important in the balance
I’ll have to recheck your vids with this in mind. And yes room reverb/reflections could also be a factor.
It is a good point Toby, JK. When I moved into this room I did notice some echo in the room I can hear it when I make a sudden speech sound, not a lot but all the same I don’t how much it takes to affect things. I am waiting until I finish furnishing it but if I could still hear it I was intending to fit some soft sound absorbing fittings to the corners, I saw some good home made ones on youtube.
My Lonely Boy cover is the video that came to mind for me where I was playing an electric and singing into the mic.
Amp noise was captured via line-in, I don’t really hear any guitar string noise in the recording.
I’m no mic expert though, this is the only dynamic mic I’ve owned.