Making sense of basic Chord Sheets

[MAT1953]

I have been following the Topic “What does learned a new song mean” and in it Tom @Tbushell mentioned the same problem I have as well with basic chord sheets.
Just moved onto Grade 2 and up until now have learnt songs through either’ Justin’s lessons, from the app or songbook. In the songbook there are bar lines and/or all the chords are shown.
All very straight forward, but I am now learning songs that Justin has not done, from a basic chord sheet with no bar lines, and that only show when the chord changes with the lyrics. So, I don’t know how many bars of a chord there is before it changes, or if the chord changes are in the middle of a bar.
If you are faced with this is the only option to listen to the song and work it out for yourself how many bars before the chord changes, with the lyrics.
Or is there another option if you are playing simple strumming patterns and most important singing and there are big gaps between changes, do you just keep going until the lyric indicates when to change chords, in a way getting a more musical feel for the song. Of course, if there is a lot of changes one after another then you are going to have to work that out. If this is a valid way I am wondering if there is any advice on how to prepare for a change, not too difficult if the strumming is all down, but if it is more complicated such as OF.
Has anybody any other thoughts or suggestions on how to use basic chord sheets.

Michael

[stitch]

Listening to the original and knowing the lyrics from memory is the easiest way to know when the chord changes are and what the timing is. Look for sheet music rather than tabs. Sheet music will have both lyrics and chords with in bars.

Always learn new songs with one strum per bar until you are comfortable playing it with the original. Then you can add strumming and chord embelishments. This gets easier and you’ll get faster at it the more songs you learn. Learn as many simple songs as you can, this helps with learning chord progression so they are automatic.

[CT]

I take a different angle. I don’t care about such things as what happens with the original or where the changes and such are “supposed” to be. I’m adjusting the progression to my own sense of style, time/tempo/rhythm, and according to how I breath (for singing). I will even change, add or drop a chord as well. As a player it’s our job to bring some juice to the party.

I completely agree with starting out learning or sussing out a new progression or song with one down strum per bar - and then on to one down strum per beat. From there find a groove and introduce your own strumming pattern. More juice!

[ToniMacaroni]

@MAT1953

Great question. I hit the same thing this weekend, not knowing where and how much strums. I’m also in grade 2 and have the app and Justin songbooks,which I use regularly. But know trying to play from chord sheets. So I will follow this with intrest. I’m more in @CT corner in this
I just start singing and let that be my guide of the chord changes, but maybe all wrong.

[Tbushell]

At my current level of development, I almost always find that the crowd sourced lead sheets are missing important information, and I need to add the missing detail myself.

This post goes into a little more depth on my process of creating my own lead sheets.

Singing & Playing At The Same Time

I find having a good lead sheet very helpful, if I haven’t quite committed the guitar part and the lyrics to memory. But I almost always end up copyiing the best one I find online, and creating my own. I have to make sure that the chord changes exactly line up the correct syllable in the vocals (in lots of songs, chords will change in the middle of a word e.g. Mad World). Many online lead sheets only approximate this, which totally throws me off the flow of the song, resulting in a huge trai…

[tony]

I share your frustration with many of the easily available chord sheets for songs. Justin’s lesson are great because he goes into such detail as to how to strum and for how many beats for each chord. And some of the chord sheets are also wrong. Trial and error does it for me and as some of the comments above say, I also add my own interpretation. I like a bit more space between verses so it’s common for me to play the root chord an extra time or two at the end of the chorus. I also use software like song surgeon or moises or riffstation to show me the chords.

[Barrysascotsman]

I agree with CT. I usually learn the words with basic stumming. Then I just do it my way. It’s what music is all about. Do you! It’s really a blast when you get your own style experiments. It gets the creative going and rather than copying you get your own styling. Then, it’s really interesting to play the original and play it their way after you gone in your own direction with the music. Cast away the shackles and rock on!

[CT]

I know that sir Justin preaches accuracy, and that’s valid when teaching people songs as they are recorded. That said, apply caution when using the word “wrong.” Some advanced tactics would be transposing into another key that is more suitable to your vocal range – and that would certainly apply here. Altering a song to make it more playable/singable isn’t wrong. Once you develop your ear and identify your most comfortable playing and vocal key, you are ahead of the game. No sense dying on the vine because you can’t carbon copy some heavily produced track that plays on rock radio – from a vocalist that can wail three octaves.

[MAT1953]

Apologies for not getting back on your posts sooner but have been a bit tied up on other guitar things.
Thanks Michael

Rick @stitch
I agree using the lyrics to know when to change the chord is how I try to do when learning songs for Grade 1 which where ones that Justin had done.
I found that only strumming once for each bar was not working for me, so I ditched that very early on in starting to play and went to down strum on each beat, found it kept me more in time with the App. However, when I learnt the first songs, to play from memory I soon went for a more complicated strumming pattern such as OF, I think this made it more difficulty as I was trying to sing as well

Toni @ToniMacaroni
Hope the comments from others are helpful.

Tom @Tbushell
Since my earlier post have had a look at other chord sheets and other version of them in UG, also listening to the original and some cover versions. Was quite surprised how different the lyrics can be in some cover versions and this is reflected in the chord sheets.

Tony @tony
Yes, Justin’s info is spot on compared to other sources.
Must check out the software you mention

Barry @Barrysascotsman
Some of the new songs I am learning I have started to learn rather than just using 4D have been trying 4DU per bar. Seem to be alright with that.

CT @CT
You comment about accuracy is well made, not all of us are sitting an exam when we would be marked down for lack of accuracy but just trying to make music that we are happy with and hopefully others might find acceptable should they ever hear it.

[CT]

@MAT1953

CT @CT
You comment about accuracy is well made, not all of us are sitting an exam when we would be marked down for lack of accuracy but just trying to make music that we are happy with and hopefully others might find acceptable should they ever hear it.

I agree fully with making music you are happy with, not so much with what others might find acceptable. As we speak someone is listening to Justin Bieber and thinking he’s the greatest, and someone else is changing the dial from A Bob Dylan song. There is no actual right or wrong, or accounting for taste or personal preference.

I’m very fond of cover versions that re-imagine and veer away from the original track.

[Socio]

@CT

I’m very fond of cover versions that re-imagine and veer away from the original track.

And sometimes the re-imagined cover version turns out better than the original

[Notter]

I can appreciate exactly where you’re coming from Michael when I started to properly break away from the app and it’s superb structure.

I think they key once you start to use song sheets or other resources is very much having a reasonable familiarity with the song in the first place so you have an initial feel of when changes should happen. It’s s little trial and error as alot of these sheets, as others have pointed out, are not wholly accurate. I’ve actually started a process of downloading sheets and personally editing them, lining up changes to the actual correct lyric line, it’s quite an interesting exercise in it’s own right in learning a new song. The other one with those sheets is some of the chords themselves, occasionally they’re downright wrong and you need to grab the guitar to figure it our, or in other cases the chord’s correct, but not necessarily the best fit, so again playing around helps. So overall a good exercise for me in the sense it makes me think a little theory before starting the song in anger.

[MAT1953]

Mark @Notter
You are right until you start looking at other information you soon realise how good all of Justin’s material is.

[Mustela]

Digging this old post because I really want to emphasize how much trouble I’m having with this, and see if maybe I can get a “system” figured out where I can make progress here. I’m pretty beginner, but I’m at a level now where I want to be able to go to a local Guitar League group’s jams. They break off by ability level and I’m more or less in the neighborhood of the beginner’s group. I’m not smooth and proficient with all the chords they’re using, but I am with most.

Also, I know enough chords that I’d like to start playing more songs before moving on in the lessons I’m doing. I want to mix up my playing routine a little bit. The VAST majority of those are written up in song sheet formatting with lyrics and chords only. Shoot, I have thousands of them saved on my computer. Some individual ones sent to me by other people. But I also have a single pdf that is a huge library of them.

The big problem is that I don’t know what in the world to do with these song sheets. I’ve been learning most of my material from a combo of TAB/sheet music, so I’m essentially working to play exactly what is shown in front of me. Some of that is beyond the level of just strumming at this point. But when I’m presented with a song sheet that leaves so much to interpretation, I have no idea what in the world to do.

It’s not helped by the fact that I am not at a point where I can sing along with myself playing. I’m thinking about all the stuff I need to do with the guitar. The chords, the strum (at least getting into the neighborhood of hitting the right strings, ensuring that I’m actually hitting them in the first place and not missing them entirely, and so on), keeping track of the timing, and just getting a general feel for the groove of the song. There’s no way I can also sing along. I’ve tried.

Count me as another who has a hard time with the single-strum-per-chord thing because it’s just soooo boring.

I also have quite the frustration with “just figure it out” suggestions at my level. When I’ve brought this up to other people, this is the most common response I’m given, and I’m just not there. How do I figure it out? I’ve not encountered any lessons of any sort on how you do this. Honestly this discussion is the most detailed description I’ve seen. It’s closer to what I’m looking for, but it’s not quite there.

The biggest thing I have trouble with is when to make the noted chord change when I’m not singing, because it seems like every suggestion for how to figure out how to strum it focuses on using the lyrics to work that out. And then in a group jam situation, it’s exacerbated by the fact that it sounds like absolute chaos to me with people doing so many rather different things that don’t always sound nice together.

I’ve tried using several sources to help figure things out. Ultimate Guitar seems like it might be helpful because many songs offer strumming patterns. But in some cases, they confuse matters because the pattern is several bars long, and don’t really show where in that pattern some of those chord changes are supposed to happen (and it’s obvious that they don’t all fall at the end of the pattern).

I’m absolutely not at a point where I’m going to be downloading and editing these song sheets, but I can definitely see why you might want to do that. I’ve tried for some stuff to write down on paper what I’m trying to do and when and I just need more under my belt to be able to do that.

So…does anyone have anything else to add to this to help a beginner wrap their head around making use of these? This seems to be a great big hole in most guitar instruction I’ve tried over the years (I’ve taken private lessons, group classes, and online lessons and none have really provided a system or method for a beginner to figure it out on your own). In the private lessons and group classes I’ve taken, I may have been given these sheets, but I’ve also been told “strum it this way” with no explanation of why.

[MAT1953]

Nate @Mustela

Such a long post deserves a full response unfortunately I am a bit tied up with non guitar matters at present but will do.

However I would say there is a big difference between when playing by yourself or playing with others, but rhythm is king, in most case if you play the wrong chord most people won’t notice but you mess up the rhythm they probably will.

Michael

[LadyOfTheCastle]

Hi @Mustela, I’m at the end of grade 1, so I guess I’m pretty much where you are (or even behind you). With these song sheets (just chords over lyrics, no indication of number of bars etc), I first try to figure it out (more or less) by listening to the song with the sheet in front of me, and tapping te rhythm. This way, I can mark the bars, and I know whether there’s just a chord change at the beginning of the bar or also e.g. in the middle.

I also use apps like chordai or moises. You import the song into the app, and it will give you bars with chords and chord changes. Mind you, it’s not always correct, but it is a very good hook when combined with the song sheet. Give it a try, you’ll see they are really helpful.

As for the strumming pattern, I always hope to find one, but most of the time - no such luck. I start of with 1 or 2 per bar, then go to 4 per bar. I often try old faithful. But what helps me the most to get a ‘final’ strumming pattern, is playing along with the song. Often old faithful works. Sometimes it doesn’t feel right. In that case, I kind of automatically move to another pattern, mostly based on the ‘basic’ rhythm of the song. I don’t really know how to explain this, but it comes down to going for the rhythm of the song as a whole rather than trying to suss out the pattern played on the guitar somewhere in the mix.

Once you’ve figured out a couple of songs this way, you get more of a feel of how to handle those song sheets and it gets a lot easier, so don’t give up!

Hope this helps!

[Mustela]

Ugh. That just makes the process sound even more daunting to me. Not to mention, I don’t even know what you’re referring to when you say “old faithful”.

Thanks for the tips on the apps, but if they can be so inconsistent, I’m not sure that I really want to mess with them.

There has to be a better way. I totally understand a more advanced player diving in to “figure it out” and come up with something new and cool. But me? I’d just as soon ignore song sheets and only play what I can find with better quality tabs or sheet music.

[judi]

Hi Nate @Mustela, I can feel your frustration! I don’t have nearly the musical background that you have, and am an “advancing beginner” (having finished Justin’s Grade 2 and delving into Grade 3). That said, I think your “better way” will be to follow Justin’s courses, in the order presented. You’ll probably sail through many lessons, but you’ll become familiar with Justin’s methodology and terminology. For example, the “Old Faithful” strumming pattern is introduced in Grade 1 Module 4, and Justin introduces improvising with songs in the key of C in Grade 2 Module 10. He discusses reading tabs, rhythm, effective practice techniques, and many other practical things along the way. The thing is, it is important to do all the lessons in order (at least in the first two Grades). But coupled with this community and a little patience, I think you’ll soon be feeling progress toward your goals!

The other thing you might do is look at the Practical Music Theory (PMT) course. While Justin does introduce theory in the Graded lessons, it’s sort of limited to “what you really need to know right now.” Justin’s PMT presents theory from the point of view of guitar. It might help you achieve your goals faster. I believe Grades 1 and 2 of this course are free; the rest of the course does require a subscription.

I’m a runner and I think of my guitar journey as a series of training plans, each with a different goal. As a beginner, the skills I developed training for one event absolutely helped me as I trained for another, very different event. Of course, running is a simpler endeavor than learning guitar; but that’s the beauty of guitar: there are always new skills to explore! And the gear is more fun, too.

Whew, that got long, sorry. Hope there are a couple words in there that you’ll find useful.

[LadyOfTheCastle]

Hi Nate @Mustela, I know what I wrote earlier can sound daunting, but it sounds far worse than it is, believe me. As I said before, I am still very much a beginner. FWIW, I absolutely don’t like noise, and from the moment there’s more than one instrument involved, I can’t distinguish one from another in the mix. So you’re not alone in this.

Ok, you have song sheets from ozbcoz.com. I looked up ‘What’s Up’ of 4 Non Blonds, a relatively easy 1st grade song, on zobcoz.com. That gives this song sheet:

Then I went to chordify.net, a website that creates chord sheets from audio files (pretty much like the apps I mentioned earlier). This gives me this:

When you put this next to the song sheet from ozbcoz.net, you’ll notice 3 things:

1. ozbcoz.net tells you at what point in the lyrics you have to change chords. If you (at the moment) don’t want to sing or don’t want to play along to the original, that’s not all that important.
2. chordify.net tells you how many bars of each chord you have to play, and where in a bar you have to change chords (in this example, all changes take place on the 1st beat).
3. The chords don’t match up, i.e. ozbcoz. net starts with G Am C, while chordify.net starts with A Bm D. That’s because at the top of the song sheet it says: “capo on 2”, so the chords mentioned in the song sheet are the chords to play when using a capo on 2, while the chords on chordify.net are the chords to play without a capo. You can align this by transposing the song in chordify.net 2 steps (= capo on 2; you see the transpose button in the menu just above the bars with chords, well, its says ‘transponeer’ as I’ve put it in Dutch ). When you do that, you get the following:

Put this next to your song sheet and you can get started.

As for the old faithful strumming pattern: it’s D_DU_UD_, and it’s one of the most widely used strumming patterns.

But maybe it’s best if you first start with a couple of lessons before trying to figure out song sheets. Justin introduces easy songs to play right from the first lesson, and if you use the pre-made practice routine on the website, you even get a play along song exercise with a clear indication of when to change chords. Justin will also gradually teach you how to figure out tabs etc, which will enable you to find your way around more easily. Give it a shot and see where it takes you!

Learning to play guitar is not easy, but it is very rewarding. But you have to put in the work, there’s no other way.

[Socio]

@Mustela

This seems to be a great big hole in most guitar instruction I’ve tried over the years (I’ve taken private lessons, group classes, and online lessons and none have really provided a system or method for a beginner to figure it out on your own).

I’ll echo what @judi start Justin’s lessons from the very beginning, follow them systematically, progressing as meet the pass criteria. That will ensure you’ve laid down solid foundations and corrected any bad habits picked up previously. The system laid down by Justin is tried and tested.