Open Mic 27 : Recording & After-Show Chat

[jkahn]

@CD02

Reaper was set where the bars were hitting about -6db

Decibels is a logarithmic scale, not particularly intuitive. Every 10dB increase is a doubling in perceived sound volume. So, -6dB from clipping is perhaps only 60-70% of the perceived volume of someone at -0dB.

A picture is worth a thousand words though, and I find this inside-baseball (american term I think) stuff interesting, so maybe you and others will too Craig. Here are some examples from the OM - all from the original file before I boosted audio in some sections.

The green bit is the audio waveform.

Here’s our man @brianlarsen with his super simple setup, but great sound settings. Great volume, consistent solid volume. Notice the waveform does hit the limit - but it works well!

Here’s you @CD02. Notice how your waveform size is so much smaller - that’s because your input volume is so much lower. Your playing was louder than your talking though, that was really quiet - it’s the left-hand side of the waveform.

But your section of the recording was easy to correct as you weren’t hitting the limiter, so I could normalise it up to the limiter.

Here was one I unfortunately couldn’t boost - @Alexeyd’s second performance. The waveform is mostly small, but there were lots of dynamics in his playing. The percussive strums hit the limiter. I’m sure an advanced audio engineer would have ways to bring up the average volume but the tool I use (normalise audio in DaVinci Resolve) only allows boosting up to the dB limit, and this performance was already at it.

[CD02]

Oh, that’s great @jkahn thanks for putting that together, really interesting to see. Good ole’ @brianlarsen nailed it again

@jkahn

but the tool I use (normalise audio in DaVinci Resolve) only allows boosting up to the dB limit

So, just trying to fully understand this, is the “limit” as per Resolve the upper and lower limits as seen on the green area of your snippets?

When we did sound checks levels appeared ok yet they seem to be lower once recorded, is that the case? or is it how Resolve perceives the recording?

It’s seems just an adjust it on experience thing because I cannot re-create it when I record myself in Zoom, the sound seems fine then.

So going forward maybe set Reaper to be peaking in the 0db region ?

Great input JK, cheers, and yes the techie side of it helps fulfill my tech craving since retiring

EDIT: Come to think of it I have Resolve, I could run some of my own level tests recording my Zoom and opening in Resolve

[Alexeyd]

Thanks, JK
I tried using some compression, but it didn’t work well with zoom. Also, in case of a classical guitar, full dynamics is more important then even volume, I think.

[brianlarsen]

@jkahn

super simple setup, but great sound settings

Just to be clear- this is pure laziness and lack of interest in the tech side of things.
My thinking is that Zoom is designed for simple audio-visuals, so the only thing I adjust is the mic level and the original sound function.
Debutants to the OMs should take solace in this, inasmuch as it is simple and works well
For everyone running their chain through DAWs and OBS with virtual cables etc., hats off to you. You are learning skills and deepening your understanding of how things work. This is invaluable stuff and will stand to you good stead as you crack the nuts.
Low sound levels don’t worry me at all. I have one of those volume knobs at my fingertips that I can twiddle whenever I like

[jkahn]

@CD02

So, just trying to fully understand this, is the “limit” as per Resolve the upper and lower limits as seen on the green area of your snippets?

Green part, yes. The audio is stereo, but the source audio is mono so identical through both channels, so the waveform looks mirrored. Silence/0% volume is middle. Peak/100% volume is when the wave touches the outside of the green area.

@CD02

When we did sound checks levels appeared ok yet they seem to be lower once recorded, is that the case? or is it how Resolve perceives the recording?

I wasn’t around for most of the sound check, I would assume it was actually not OK, it would have been too quiet but people turned the volume up on their end. The recording would be the same as the VC. It has nothing to do with Resolve, that’s just the software I used to edit the video. The same principle applies for all digitally recorded audio I know of (with or without video).

@CD02

So going forward maybe set Reaper to be peaking in the 0db region ?

I would suggest generally maximising volume to as loud as you can without hearing bad distortion from clipping. Exactly what that is will depend on what you’re playing.

[Richard_close2u]

@deiussum

I’ve been slowly making my way through the old OMs … most of the old OM videos up through around 23 have chapters setup, but starting with 24 it seems like that is missing. I found it kind of useful to hover over as a reminder to who was playing and their forum username.

Dan - thanks for the prompt to get the job done … I have spent my morning going back through Open Mics 24, 25, 26 & 27 and adding times for each performer. And the task is now complete - on Youtube and in the Archive topic here. JustinGuitar Community Open Mic Events - Video Archives

ps

Kudos and good vibes for retrospectively viewing the archive recordings.
I’m sure many newer folk would find value, as you seem to be.

[CD02]

Definitely interesting seeing its evolution

[brianlarsen]

@Richard_close2u

Kudos and good vibes for retrospectively viewing the archive recordings.

I was hoping more of something along the lines of ‘archiving them behind a secure password…’

[deiussum]

Thanks Richard! You’re the best!

I just finished up making my way through them and it was great. I feel like I got to know the performers a little better. It was great to see everyone evolve as time went on. There were a lot of stellar performances, but it was also great watching some of the newer guitar players pushing through the fear and gain confidence as they did a few more.

@brianlarsen - Don’t you dare lock them behind a password! (p.s. I will never look at a ukelele again w/o hearing your ukelele song in my head. Edit: on second thought maybe they should be locked up to prevent this affliction from spreading. Or at least a strong warning edited into the videos where you pull out the ukelele. )

[deiussum]

It’s interesting to see the technical side of that JK. I’ve been thinking about that a bit for whenever I join in.

I’m primarily using Linux, so my setup is going to be a bit different from the instructions I’ve seen posted elsewhere here, but I think I found a setup that will work while testing out routing audio from Reaper directly into Discord. I’m guessing it would be similar for routing into Zoom.

[eric.lennon]

Cheers Toby for the listen and feedback. I am trying to add some more modern songs to my repertoire , anything after 2000 is modern to me. Funny you noticed the chairs, i was going to search for something that looked right with the rest of the room but in the end I just dragged these 2 chairs from another room because they are comfy and now this is their place. Hope you are well mate.

[eric.lennon]

@jkahn can I hire you as my sound tech

[jkahn]

@deiussum

I think I found a setup that will work while testing out routing audio from Reaper directly into Discord. I’m guessing it would be similar for routing into Zoom.

Yep, the principles would be the same. I’m sure if you’re competent on Linux you’d be able to figure it out

@eric.lennon

can I hire you as my sound tech

Haha, not sure you need that Eric, your sound was great this OM

[DavidP]

@brianlarsen

@RonG

Great night everyone sounded great except me

Au contraire, mon ami!
Your performance was better than most, simply not to the semi-studio standard that you’ve got us used to

Well said Brian !!

[DavidP]

@deiussum

I think I found a setup that will work while testing out routing audio from Reaper directly into Discord. I’m guessing it would be similar for routing into Zoom.

I’d say ‘yes’ Dan. Also you can probably bypass Reaper and just setup Zoom to receive audio directly from the same source that Reaper does.

[Richard_close2u]

Is there a real, specific advantage that many folk set themselves up with tech obstacles and seek to incorporate Reaper into their chain?
Why not AI → Zoom direct?
Is it just to add reverb to vocals?

[nzmetal]

Just finished watching! What a show! Disappointed to have missed it live (ended up having a gig to go to that night with a couple of mates playing so had to make a tough call )… also would have loved to contribute as a performer from the southeast (or is it southwest? ) of the globe… next time I promise!
Quick reactions from my viewing just now…
Mal & Lara - loved Stuck in the Middle!! Listened the h*ll out of the Reservoir Dogs soundtrack back in my teens. Great movie (perhaps my all time favourite along with Pulp Fiction) and great soundtrack! Maybe my second favourite tune from a Tarantino movie after Urge Overkill’s cover of Girl, You’ll be a Women Soon, or maybe that one from Kill Bill by the 5.6.7.8’s. Loved it!
Brian - You never disappoint! So good! Loved the dynamics in both… and that you didn’t censor the lyrics Plus the Bill Bailey cover, channelling your inner Tom Waits, was brilliant!
Craig - Super well done mate! What a great debut! Especially having to manage all the tech alongside playing and singing! Both songs were mint! That practice in Bali paid off for sure!
Alexey - What can I say, but astonishing! I have said before that I could listen to your playing all night and I reiterate it now, just mesmerizingly stunning! Both were delicious in their complexity and beauty. I appreciate you had some small trips at times, but that just (barely) prevents me from giving up guitar immediately The speed on the second piece just blew me away!
David - Great rendition of What’s Going On! I was wondering if the hat was a shout out to Linda Perry? You just needed some goggles on there and you would’ve been the spitting image mate! I hope you don’t mind me mentioning the shaking hands, you mentioned it in the interlude between songs, that is my number one barrier to playing live… to see you navigate it so well gives me hope and I will try to reflect on that when being hesitant to put my name forward. Thank you for being the shining light of motivation to us all that you constantly are Plus Neil Young, just fab! Love your work buddy!
Ron - I have always loved your performances and this one was just as special! I appreciate there were some level concerns (reading through the above chat), but that’s live performance and putting those minor moments to one side, your playing, singing and overall production on these was outstanding mate! Whiter Shade of Pale was phenomenal! Please play more OMs! P.s. You and Mal aren’t long lost brothers are you?
Eric - Great to see you again mate! Guitar room’s looking amazing!! That gorgeous LP was sounding sweet! Loving the solos!! On fire buddy!!
Dan - Always a treat to see you perform! Thoroughly enjoyable! Really painted pictures for me! Very cleverly constructed lyrics, catchy yet with just the right amount of darkness and sweetly played, sir! Top stuff!

Well done again to all the performers, big thanks to the organisers for making this happen and the live audience for making it a proper show!

Just a thought around the low volume levels over Zoom, I wonder if folks could advise if they did or didn’t have the below highlighted settings enabled?

My thinking is this…
The auto-adjust might help or hinder, it would raise the Zoom output if it’s too quiet, but could also fluctuate as it receives varying levels to try and balance things (I have seen it misbehave on calls before, although that was typically due to a bug with a specific version), so perhaps could be best to disable that and just set a fixed position at a good level? Or if you had it disabled, then try enabling it to see if it adds a boost (even when in what appears to be the max position, I have felt the auto-gain goes beyond that if need be when enabled).
I’ve mentioned elsewhere that I suspect the echo cancellation setting does more than just…echo cancel I believe it also adds some auto gain to normalise levels. Therefore I’m wondering if those that may have been a bit quiet had that setting disabled? I would be interested to know if it was a factor.
I actually had a test run with Craig a couple of weeks prior and he sounded great to me and at a good level, I was at work and try to keep those headphones at a constant setting to help with troubleshooting such issues, however as it was a one-to-one call with no one to compare, I can’t say for sure now that I hadn’t bumped my level a bit
Our tech support rep at Zoom is a guitar player too, so he might have some inside wisdom on this, so I could perhaps reach out to him for advice if helpful

@Richard_close2u

Is there a real, specific advantage that many folk set themselves up with tech obstacles and seek to incorporate Reaper into their chain?
Why not AI → Zoom direct?

Backing tracks?
Although I’ve been playing around with my Tone Master Pro (which is now my AI instead of the Scarlett) and I can play those more easily direct through there from an external source, so wouldn’t need Reaper in my setup now thankfully

[Elixir1253]

@nzmetal

My thinking is this…

Good points and thoughts Jeff, and interested to know more on your development work using Tone Master Pro.
Using a baseline premis, I lean towards @Richard_close2u, questioning a need for any complex audio chain. Personally, as a relative ‘noob’, it’s KISS for me.

That said, quite a few JGC members enjoy playing accompanied by backing tracks; from drum beats to full-on band performances, muting or dialling down their instrument part; which does require some form of AI.

I don’t have any recommendation to make other than ‘caveat lector’; albeit less of an issue in here.

For sure, everyone should check their Zoom settings … Regularly ! … Zoom have a habit of making changes, documented in the ‘small print’ … ie. most of us have fallen foul of the ‘musicans’ toggle switch.

For the “admins” ; perhaps Jeff’s discussion points warrant a move to a more appropriate thread to broaden the audience.

[deiussum]

@DavidP

I’d say ‘yes’ Dan. Also you can probably bypass Reaper and just setup Zoom to receive audio directly from the same source that Reaper does.

@Richard_close2u

Is there a real, specific advantage that many folk set themselves up with tech obstacles and seek to incorporate Reaper into their chain?
Why not AI → Zoom direct?
Is it just to add reverb to vocals?

My initial thought was that I’d need to use something to combine the 2 inputs on my audio interface (Guitar + Mic) into 1 since I’m guessing Zoom is similar to Discord & Teams in that it only lets you pick one “microphone”.

However, in Linux, I used a tool that gives you a graphical representation of your audio connections and lets you change them, so I could probably use that to direct both inputs into Zoom. In the Windows world this would probably be similar to using something like VB Audio cable.

I think introducing Reaper adds a few different possibilities to the mix, though:

• Adding VST plugins for various effects.
• Adding backing tracks or MIDI instrument tracks (e.g. drum loop)
• For the more adventurous, I’ve seen some ways to setup Reaper to do a sort of “live looping” which could then also incorporate something like a keyboard or MIDI controller.

That said, the songs I’m thinking of for my first OM are probably going to be on my acoustic, so I think I could easily just go simple and use my Blue Snowball USB mic for both vocals and guitar.

[Richard_close2u]

@deiussum

I’m guessing Zoom is similar to Discord & Teams in that it only lets you pick one “microphone”.

It lets you pick one input … an interface is an input for this purpose.