Hello all, thank you for your comments. I welcome all comments, good, bad or indifferent.
I live in a world where people are not easily offended and the phrase ‘not having the common sense you were born with’ is one that I’ve known all my life. It’s very rarely given as an insult and very rarely taken as an insult. In fact it’s quite often given and taken with a lot of humour.
I now realise that it’s use like this is maybe not as widespread as I thought it was and on reflection my use of it in the community was wrong.
I apologise for causing any offence, insult, ill feeling or seeming to bring some toxicity to the community. It was never my intention to cause any of that.
Unfortunately all of this has detracted from my reason for this topic. I stand by everything I’ve said about the pushing of recordings. I truly believe that it will already have pushed some away from the community and could be preventing others from joining.
I know it’s only one view, but it’s a view I’ve formed from being a beginner and relatively new in the community. Most of you on this topic have been here for quite awhile and so maybe can’t see it from my, or others, perspective.
Anyhow, at least it’s brought about some discussion and brought it to the community’s attention.
Lieven, you seem to understand my reasons for this topic.
I hope you and the rest of the team continue to develop the community into a place for all Justin’s students.
As the community grows it will have to adapt, change, evolve, to accommodate everyone and I hope the issue I’ve raised here will in some way help towards that evolution.
Hi David, it’s all water under a bridge to me. Life’s is too short for nursing animosity or registering wrongs. I’m glad that you have recognised that your choice of words was somewhat misplaced and offerered a sincere apology to anyone that they may have offended by them. Everyones view in the community is important and when things are not feeling right for someone its important to understand whats making that person feel that way. We have some great moderators in this community whom I’m sure would be more than happy for anyone to reach out to them if they had any issues. Now back to some guitar practice
Which for me highlights something few seem to have mentioned yet… that we are not all from the same country, region, culture, etc. If there’s one thing I’ve learnt in nearly 30 years of online communities, it’s that you shouldn’t take anything said on a forum at face value. English is often not the first language of the poster, and things may not translate exactly as they intend from their own language. Or, as in this case, something which is perfectly normal in their own culture may be seen as offensive to another. Nobody can be expected to know exactly how everything works outside the bubble of their own lives, so a little tolerance and investigation is required before getting bent out of shape by comments we don’t like, to determine the true meaning.
I’m afraid that I simply don’t agree with this. It may be true that a tiny, tiny number of people have seen recording suggestions/requests and then abandoned the community as a result. But I believe that the other 99.99% are perfectly capable of taking suggestions/requests in their stride, and deciding for themselves if and when they are ready to share their videos.
We can’t have a rule banning the suggestion of recordings in a guitar-based community, nor can we provide pre-determined phrases for people to use that ensure absolutely no obligation is in any way implied to those of a hyper-sensitive nature. At the end of the day nothing will “work” for 100% of people, which is why 99% is usually the best you can hope for.
Interesting statement and I am not easily offended but as someone who lived in the UK for 55 years but not in your region, this would always be taken as an insult. I would always take this as meaning I am an idiot and I worked and lived in many UK regions. But thank you for apologising.
Not a saying that I’ve really come across. Though I’d say there are a lot of sayings that you’d say to people you know that could be considered as an insult if they didn’t know you were saying it in jest. And that really comes down to the tone being used. That being said its best not to say anything that could be taken the wrong way unless you know for certain that they will take it in jest.
Your first and last paragraphs go from one extreme to the other, from leaving it as it is to a ban on suggestions for recordings.
A ban is out of the question and is not what I’m calling for.
You say 99% is the best we can hope for, but I think a 100% solution can be found somewhere in between the two extremes.
The problem I have with the current way is that these suggestions for recordings are usually seen in isolation. When they are seen all over the community again and again and again it’s that collective that turns the suggestion into a push. The feeling isn’t that any one person is pushing or that any one person is being pushed, it’s a feeling of the community pushing all of us to post recordings.
If those very same recording suggestions were seen together with suggestions for other aspects of the community, then the recording suggestions wouldn’t stand out and the feeling would then be that the community was encouraging us to find the aspects which suit us.
In @DavidP ‘s post he tells us that the team are working on something and if it was something like @Socio ‘s highlighted suggestion then the community could work with that in their posts and that 100% solution in between could be found.
The team can only do so much and then it’s up to the community to find a way. I think the community can do it.
I’ve kept out of the conversation so far. I’m joining now as I think @BurnsRhythm makes a pertinent point here.
I am certainly one of those members who often makes the suggestion to make recordings and share in AVOYP. I say often as I do try to consider the where the specific members is based on what they are sharing or what they may be asking about to aid in learning, so don’t make that suggestion in reply to each and every member’s Intro post…
To David’s freshest thoughts …
The tricky thing in regards to general suggestions presented either in Justin’s lessons (and again I feel a want to go back and work through Grade 1 and 2 to have appreciation for people’s experience learning as either first-timers or returners with some back-history) or as a Topic in some appropriate Category in the Community Platform, is that one never knows what a person may have watched or read.
In any community, group, or team, feeling safe to share your thoughts and feelings or ask questions is a critical characteristic. I like to think that this is a ‘safe’ community in which people are treated with respect (yes, we have the odd moment but those are few and far between). As such I believe and respond to posts, be it questions or comments, from the point of everybody being well-intended. As such if there was ever a member who felt pressurised or judged, that there were specifics as to what was expected of members to be accepted and supported then I would wish to hear that feedback, even if it were via a Direct Message to me or one of the other Mods.
I appreciate David’s offer to hear privately any concerns about pressure to do something on the forum, like posting a video or anything else really (like, buying a guitar, perhaps?).
I have never felt anything but a few good natured suggestions to post. Mostly in the vein of others interest in me and their support of my journey. So, more a feeling of community support and interest. The suggestion also recognizes that in the internet learning age we don’t get a lot of real direct feedback, so it is a potentially valuable learning tool.
We are all adults here, mostly it seems at least, and are able to make our own decisions on posting. For some it is sharing the process, learning opportunities, or simple excitement to share accomplishments.
Some of us don’t post. I am one of them and have my own reasons, as does everyone else. This has also, in my experience, been honored and respected by others on the forum who like it when people do post their efforts.
So, overall, I would assess that the forum seems pretty mature in its behaviors, regarding posting and other such potential pressure points. I have difficulty seeing how a regulatory process would be of necessity or benefit.
I do see a general predilection for posting and feel it is a little like GAS. If you frequent a forum with a lot of people posting video, you start feeling you should too. If you hang out on the AGF too long, you think you need a new expensive guitar, because that is what they do. Nobody on either forum is actually pressuring you (beyond occasional good natured ribbing) but the environment exerts its influence.
So far I have been more successful at avoiding posting myself playing then buying guitars…
I am not buying another guitar, I am not buying another guitar, I am not buying another guitar, I am not buying another guitar, I am not buying another guitar….
The classical course goes well. Slowly, as it is technique driven. I am also paralleling it with digging into Justin’s fingerstyle and trying to continue some efforts in rhythm, cord changes and theory. The plate is full.
Thanks for asking!
Another reason not to post my playing. Who the heck wants to watch and old bald dude practice i&m arrpegios incessantly?
My poor, poor family….
To share my thoughts on the subject: I don’t mind when the people here ask me to share my recordings, in the end I’m the one who decides if I upload a video of my playing and when I do it.
The thing is, it takes time to make them even if it’s the simplest way of recording. I make at least 5 or 6 videos of me playing a certain song to select the best one to finally upload here. That’s a reason why I don’t share recordings that often, I have little time to make them. It’s much easier to just pick up the guitar and follow my practice routine, learn a new song or just noodle around.
Since I’m on holiday this week I was finally able to upload a new video again but I think only a few people are interested since I’m not very well known here. And that’s fine, no one’s forced to give feedback on every video that’s posted in the recording space and I still have something valuable to add to my learning log.
Someone once said to me “We judge ourselves by our intentions, and we judge others by their actions”. And the inverse is true too.
I encourage people to post videos. I wasn’t offended reading @BurnsRhythm’s comment. In intention it didn’t look like it was to insult.
Also, I’m not going to stop encouraging people to post videos. It’s one of the great things about this forum, especially the tips early on. I learned stuff like I was strumming over the neck of my electric… would not have realised at all without posting.
This is totally the operative bit. If people want to, they will post. If they don’t want to, they won’t.
This is me recently as well. Actually, the volume of AVOYPs has increased so that it’s hard to watch them and still have time to play as much as I want to. A few months back I was watching them all, now only probably 50% of them. I backed down to making maybe 1 video a month, if that.
I think requests for recordings on the forum are mostly the result of genuine curiosity and encouragement. There are several such requests on my learning log, and I may (or may not) act upon them whenever I have enough time or intention to record myself. No need to look at these requests as an imperative.
Hi David, I see you’ve put a recording suggestion on an introduction topic today, but it’s different. I see the word “ perhaps “ and I see you’ve put the link in brackets.
Two small things that make a big difference.
That’s not pushing.
Good stuff 🎸 David
So true, It really does take soooo much time. On days that I record my self I do it in lieu of practice. I do several takes as well, plus editing the audio, plus editing the video. Sometimes it can take hours for me.
On the topic, I think though that that’s why I would encourage new comers to record themselves if even just on their phones. Besides the great constructive feedback that the community gives there is also the minutia that you notice when starting to record yourself that you don’t get when just practicing. The feeling of Recording, watching/listening back, the editing techniques you learn as you get more advanced are all pretty valuable.
Not to mention feeling of completion that Justin talks about in the video on home recording. There’s a finite thing, the “I did that and now I’m done” feeling that is crucial for some like myself to learn. A to Z may seem insurmountable but having these check points in progress can feel like “I’m just finished B now on to C” If that makes sense.
All to say, I totally get where @BurnsRhythm is coming from. I wouldn’t want to scare anybody off and I hope that’s not what those gentle nudges are doing. I think though that I wouldn’t have considered recording myself and sharing without so many in the community suggesting it. I also don’t think that I would have progressed as far as I’ve gotten without recording myself.
I think you have to split it into three categories. A third of suggestions for recordings are to folk that have already posted recordings, a third are to folk that need help with an issue or don’t know if they should progress to next module/grade, and a third to folk in general due to something they have mentioned in their introductory post. I think @DavidP approaches it very well as explained in his post above and I do think that when you join the forum it can be helpful to know the various areas like the safe space etc. I don’t think you or any others have scared anybody off. People will tend to just ignore the question (avoidance tactics).
And I think that is where are most of the “pushing” is aimed. Suggesting folk record themselves, as they would be unlikely to think of it themselves. Posting in AOVYP is secondary and most folks put the emphasis on recording, But I still don’t see hordes of folk posting here to say they felt pushed. In fact the opposite, so I still think it is better to look at this as what is being done to help the individual and not see it as mass pressure across the forum, that’s just not happening. And I don’t see anyone dropping Justin’s training path in respect of a comment encouraging their development.