Peter's Learning Log with Rorystrat

Nicole no problem with the terminology, I’m only going off what Justin calls that part the first solo in his 4 part lessons. The second “solo” has some fast, twiddly bits that are going to fun to get my fingers around.

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It has indeed. And see, your flamenco practice will be useful even… Flamenco strum and all :slightly_smiling_face:

There is next to no way that you can even read the tab fast enough, you have to remember, conclude, deduct and anticipate by ear ( and memory of what Knopfle plays of course)?

Well I said earlier that I wouldn’t bore people with the Flamenco theory but now that you have mentioned it, here goes because it applies to this song.

The base chords in this song are actually what’s known as the “Andalusian Cadence” which is common to the majority of Flamenco. The chords here are Dmin, C, Bb, A major (the major is important). In Flamenco the same progression Amin, G, F, E major. In Western music the V chord (E) should not be major but in Flamenco it is. Indeed in Flamenco they consider that chord to be the tonic or I. A lot of Flamenco stays held on that chord. Try that progression for yourself and impress others that you can play Flamenco.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andalusian_cadence

In Sultans, for Knopfler gets away with playing most of the licks over the A chord meaning he can use the A pentatonic and arpeggios a lot whereas the song is actually in D minor. Thanks for indulging me if you’ve got this far, I’ll get my anorak and go…

BTW I rarely refer to tab. On Justin’s recommendation I have the Transcribe software that can slow down the actual recorded piece which helps to learn it by ear. Remembering it is a different matter.

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No no no. I wouldn’t ask if I weren’t honestly interested :slightly_smiling_face:

Tried that chord progression…and oh yes, it’s so clear. Field test failed though… My husband says he can’t place the chord progression anywhere. Apparently I haven’t been dramatic enough…

Try clapping along too in Andalusian style…

For those that are wondering why I’m such a sponge for useless information, it comes from watching Guitar videos on YouTube via smart TV whilst sitting next to the dog on the sofa. The algorithm throws all kind of things at me which I end up watching. So I am not in training to be a guitar professor. One of the excursions I went on recently was the song “Sweet Love” by Anita Baker which I think is a great song with some jazzy chords.

Sweet Love on Later with Jools Holland

But I really must FOCUS. I learnt the licks for Sultans from Justin’s lessons sat on the sofa in such a fashion. Unfortunately absorbing the lessons like that on YouTube does not get recorded in the JG website.

BTW no one seems to have picked up on the Pink Strat that made it’s first appearance here. That was another sunburst that I spray painted myself. Back in the 50’s and early 60’s, Fender offered custom colours often based on contemporary car colours and using the same paint. Shell Pink was one such colour. If you ordered one they would often over-paint a sunburst so that is prototypical. Over the years the pink would fade and wear and show through. Not happened on mine yet. Like RoryStrat, it has a Robert Cray signature neck and this one also has a hot 50’s pickup in the bridge. I thought it was more Knoplfleresque on this occassion.

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Gotta work on that still… perhaps I should go searching for some castanets rather and ask him to click and clack along :smile:

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I’ve mentioned here that I have Robert Cray signature model necks on my Strats. Just to clarify, the Robert Cray Strat is not a lavish Custom Shop model, it is made in Mexico. If only I could afford Custom Shop guitars…

When I first started out on my guitar journey, the fashion was to play lengthy solos. So the pressure from my peers was to play such single note solos. It’s only now that I’m appreciating that everything is derived from chords and the chord tones. So the order goes; chords, arpeggios, pentatonics, major/minor scales. I learnt all that in reverse order!

Read the lot, Peter, no need to get the anorak and go.

I assume you are talking about the V chord in a scale other than the standard major scale, which I understand to be I ii iii IV V vi (not sure how to write the augmented 7 chord.

Love Robert Cray!

Did notice but never mentioned the pink strat :joy:

Well done Rory. Great to see others here tackling this great tune. One of my all time favourites. One of my original Dreamers too.
Well on your way mate.

Ive made some fair progress on this tune over time, but haven’t revisited it for a while. You’ve inspired me to return to it.

Yep, alot of very, very cool licks in this song.

And although the rhythm part is fairly straight forward, playing it simultaneously with the lead will certainly be a challenge.
Will be interested to see how you go with it.

Cheers, Shane

Thanks Shane. This video shows it can be done and also that a lot of the licks and solos are derived from chords

What helps me is remembering where the licks come in relation to the lyrics. When I forgot the lyrics I forgot the licks too!

Yeah, but thats not really Sultans Of Swing is it. :nerd_face:

Cheers, Shane

True as it’s in open tuning but I’ll never be able to play it that good. So respect has to be given where it’s due.

I don’t know what prompted me to go down the Sultans of Swing rabbit hole. The Community is littered with my unfinished projects. Here’s one from over a year ago that I really must finish off:

This morning I was working on the second solo of Sultans. I’m doing a live version cos that has an actual ending whereas all the recorded versions fade out.

In the meantime, I said I must FOCUS, rather that spread myself so thin. I stated previously that I want to concentrate on Paul Kossoff stuff. There problem there is that in the band Free there was a separate singer, Paul Rodgers. The issue is similar to Led Zep stuff in that a lot of riffs are played under the vocals. I can play chords and arpegiated chords whilst singing to a fashion. I cannot play riffs and sing at the same time; I will never be that good. So I’m back on my Peter Green hobbyhorse as he did sing and play guitar at the same time. Watch this space…

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Peter

Haven’t heard this for years. Wonderful rendition!

Do you know what tuning Gabriella uses for her Sultans of Swing?

Brian

Sorry I have no idea Brian. I don’t do open tunings having enough trouble finding the notes in standard tuning! She looks as though she often plays the V chord open so it could be an open Aminor or DADGAD?

Edit: on the YouTube it says: Tuning: D A D F A D (from low to high)

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This is the kind of thing that was fashionable in Germany when I started out. I still have this album with one track on one side and one on the other. I wouldn’t encourage listening to the whole 20 minutes, it’s mainly random noodling, but there may be a chord in there.

Some of the comments on YouTube about acid are frightening. I later read that Peter Green was into these bands and it was all part of the scene he got involved with in Germany. That resulted in him into going down an acid trip that he never came back from. What a stupid loss.

Totally. I have known people who took acid and share wonderful stories, but there are also the horror stories. Personally not a trip I ever took back in my youthful student/army days, that crossed my personal lines.

Good to hear that you served David @DavidP

Back in the day in Germany there was still national service and all my school chums (AKA band mates) were being called up. Some moved to Berlin to avoid the draft. Although not a German passport holder, as my buddies were disappearing, I fled back to London just in case I was on the list. The rumour was that they would cut your hair in the military…

Well it was conscription rather than choice Peter. And my circumstances didn’t allow me to leave the country. Can’t get political here, but suffice to say I was not a supporter. A few years later my brother would make that choice (to leave). Wise for him as with his temper back then and the dynamics he’d have not coped well. And overall while I coped, it wasn’t good for me, though it did lead to me landing my first job, which was good. If that could have happened without the drinking problem …

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