What's happening with the AVOYP changes? New rules?


My gut reaction to this is, its another example of Newsletter Bloat. The NL goes out to all and sundry with an invite from Justin “Hey I’d like to hear you play” … record here. And the world and his dog arrives and start dumping posts. All well and good but JS has only visited 2 AOVYP post the whole of last year Black Magic Woman in Feb and Todd/Socrates. So every one thinks they are posting for Justin. So just like the flood we had with the Open Mic invite, I expect it will die down to normal levels once its no longer in the spotlight.

Not read all the post but newbie limits should be applied and dumping back catalogues discouraged.

A healthy community is one thing but that will be lost if this place gets too big.

My 2 cents



Very interesting topic @jkahn, thanks for bringing it up.
Having read through the comments above , there are some great perspectives and points raised.
I’m still fairly new here, but I’ll throw my name in the ring for being in favour of a monthly limit or consolidated AVOYP thread per person. In fact, a limit of (say) one per month, could really put some heightened importance on AVOYPs that would maintain their relevance? Other videos of progress could perhaps be added to people’s Learning Logs if they wish.
I also really like the idea of having everyone’s videos in a single thread that could be easily viewed to see their progress, etc. (whether that be an AVOYP thread or just utilising the LL), I think that would make it easier to provide quality feedback. Well, at least for me being relatively new here, as I’ve probably missed heaps in the past and would have to go hunt around to check out what they’ve done previously to figure out if their new recording shows any significant advancement which could be nice to highlight, for instance.
Regarding giving positive feedback as opposed to technique advice on AVOYPs, I am picking I am not alone here in being somewhat reluctant to post advice? In most cases, I don’t feel I have the expertise yet (with guitar or the forum for that matter) to give direction in any meaningful way on someone else’s playing (without being concerned I have misunderstood an issue or provided incorrect guidance). I expect many others feel the same but still want to contribute/respond so providing an encouraging post is good alternative perhaps? So, I’m thinking this maybe why most comments on AVOYPs are “pats on the back”? This may limit the benefit (and become boring to some?) but I wouldn’t under estimate the power of having external feedback (even if just niceties) for someone who may never play for anybody else. However in saying that, it would be a shame for the forum to become “instagram for guitar players” as mentioned above, so a tightening on how these posts are managed seems like a sensible way forward :slight_smile:


I also think the change from Roadcases to Learning Logs has also muddied the waters. And a lot of folks just have not got a clue where to post. Folk never posted recordings in the RC but commented on new gear and progress. AOVYP was for recordings period. Now we are in a hotch pot of recordings all over the place. If you advocate tailored recording threads per user you are creating yet another stream and adding to the confusion.

There an old rule, if its not broken don’t change it but we seem to going out of the way to introduced change. Its like the rational to keep bumping the Community NL, IG, FB etc all that will happen is constant floods of new arrivals. Nowt wrong with that but there is a natural process as folks are “driven” here but posing in the Discussion tab in all lessons.
What’s the objective to have the largest Guitar Community ? If that happens think about a new name, as the last thing it will be is a “community”.



I’m not sure that’s entirely true though, and also a bit of a shame since I know you’re an experienced player.
Personally I would love to get more actual and concrete feedback on the things I post - but I do understand why many people around here aren’t comfortable doing that. But no matter how good a recording sounds, there will always be something that can be improved. Every time I post, there are a bunch of things in my recordings that I can hear myself that I wish were a bit better. The more experienced the player, the more subtle the things to improve obviously… but they are there.

When I comment on other peoples posts I will of course try to adjust my feedback to be appropriate to that persons skill level, but I actually do try to point out both the good and the bad whenever I can… and in my experience a lot of people appreciate that quite a lot!


I’m kinda with Toby on this, in as much as I believe things will naturally settle down to a steady state, even with our ‘absent Dad’ throwing us the odd curve ball :wink:

As a reasonably heavy user, and intermittent AVOYP-clogger (perhaps only surpassed by @Bytron08 :laughing:), I used to feel the need to comment on all the other AVOYPs before sharing. I’ve given up on that, as it would take too long. I now try to keep up with those I already know, as well as the new names I recognise who have been interacting with other folks contributions (@adi_mrok’s point)

The suggestion of ‘monthly threads’ for individuals doesn’t really float my boat. Like @jkahn, I like to see the song titles, (almost as much as writing song titles that I don’t think anyone else will recognise). I will also always click to listen to an original, as I believe they deserve special acknowledgement, whatever the standard.

Would it be worth considering simply banning ‘old’ recordings (as in “Here’s one I did last year” from the AVOYP area, and redirecting them to the learning logs (old road cases)? Even when Johann was sharing every week for a year it didn’t feel like too much.

Ok, that’s probably a dime on top of Toby’s two cents.
Time to work on my next fat-ball to block the sewer… :wink:


Maggie, I feel the same!


Is it an idea that new members post 1x in the first month in AVOYP (unlimited in their LL) and for example post 2x in their 2nd month ,…something like building up ,…and this neatly and sweetly in a welcome letter, and also as a pin in this section,…and someone posts something once 2x, you can let it go,…but will the same people post 3x or more in the beginning in the first months, then maybe show a copy of the welcome topic at the beginning of the AVOYP section?..or something like that ,… but in any case a fixed form drawn up by the moderators,


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Being less than active with posting of recordings, I thought it wouldn’t be fair to criticize the AVOYP “overload” of the past few months, but it’s interesting to see that others also had the same feeling. Other topics sometimes just got buried and became a bit difficult to find.

The limit on monthly posts seems to be a good idea as it may serve also as an incentive to make those 2 or 3 performances really good. And there would be more time for practice and preparation as well.

I don’t know how feasible it would be from a technical perspective, but I could imagine a separate AVOYP Community kind of site as well that could be linked on the main Justinguitar website.


That feature exists …
It may be useful to apply it.
In Learning Logs too perhaps.

@alexisduprey your use of the learning log is a good example of keeping a diary style write up mixed in with recordings and more.

We have always held out against those seeking nothing but attention and directing people to increase their view count and not engaging in the community.
The section is Record Yourself - Progress & Performance. We have explicitly pushed the former and encouraged feedback, advice, encouragement etc. We also do want the latter - if people have learned a skill, practiced and worked at a piece and want to share a ‘performance piece’ that is also an integral part of Record Yourself - Progress & Performance.

We want to strike the balance between how many topics are posted and how long and unwieldy a topic may become. Just one topic per person, could, in time, amount to hundreds of posts.
Also, in keeping with both parts of the ‘Progress’ and the ‘Performance’ aspects …
In general, most people will not have made learning progress in a few days but can do so in a month. And, anyone working on a performance piece will likely need to spend several weeks learning and practicing it to the point they believe it is ready to record and share. Hence the thought of one topic per month. Such a move would hopefully allow people to share recordings that do show meaningful progress (that can elicit useful encouragement and feedback) or meaningful performance (not something snatched at and half-learned).

If we have first post editing, it can be updated with some titles and links internal links to the post numbers containing any new uploads. Some people, of course, will only want to post one ‘song’ per month.
The software allows for long titles to topics which could contain artists’ names, song titles, and the month for example.

It is awareness of the extremely busy nature and how some people have been unable to keep up that has led to the moderators seeking to address ways of managing the flow.

That is part of the thinking, too much can be too much. Having to choose and make editorial choices on when, how, and how much will hopefully have a positive effect as you suggest.

Learning Logs are meant as someone’s own accumulated guitar story, built up over time (months / years). It can take the form of written updates, diaries of practice routines and items etc. It can include internal uploads of recordings and links to AVOYP recordings as and when they get posted. It is the sum total of someone’s learning.

That is a very important point. A raw beginner who has just learned three chords and is just about keeping a rhythm to a song requires different feedback to someone a couple of years in seeking advice on a more complicated piece.

Good points.
The topic titles could include at least one title / artist name.
Original songs are worthy of separate consideration and their own stand alone topics. Though again, if someone records an original, is it not fair to ask them to hold off posting other AVOYP in the same month? Or at most one original in its topic plus one other ‘catch-all’ in the same month?

Perhaps. Retrospectively moving such posts to Learning Logs could be done, in time.


As with @brianlarsen I think you’re right Toby, that’s probably the cause.

There’s already an instagram for guitar players, it’s instagram :wink:. Sadly I think treating JGC like that will just devalue the community and take the community part out of it.

Just do it Jeff, you’ve been playing for a long time and have plenty of advice to give. Don’t worry about being wrong - hell, I don’t, I wouldn’t give any advice if worried about that, and I’ve been playing way less than you.

I also love getting real concrete feedback on my posts, it’s totally absent otherwise as a home learner. But Kasper… maybe you’re not getting much of that because you’re so pro-level good! You’d need Joe Satriani to give you tips :wink:


TBH I think this really hits the nail right on the head, and it sums up my own thoughts on the “problem” perfectly - just worded and written out much better than I could have hoped to do :wink:

I don’t want to criticize too much how other people go about posting, but it always seemed to me that some of those that post very, very often could probably get a lot more benefit out of trying to take their performances to the next level. It’s kind of the whole point of doing this - compare with old recordings, and check that you improve over time…

On the other hand, I do understand that sometimes you just want to perform some song simply because you love that piece of music, not necessarily because it’s super hard or moving your abilities forward. It’s all about the balance IMO…


I try my best to give critique to others within the bounds of my own skill level but I’m aware others may be reluctant to do this.

I’m almost at the stage when I’d rather send my AVoYPs by email to a dozen or so ‘regulars’ in order to get genuine and helpful feedback. The ‘well done that was great’ comments are welcome but don’t take you very far.

Regarding the volume of AVoYPs, surely adding the posters name to the post title would be the simplest way to filter out the ‘look how good I am’ ones from people who don’t otherwise interact in the Community and would allow you to follow the people who interest you.


Have we met? :rofl:
A couple of years ago it took me weeks/months to get a song to mediocrity level 1. As soon as I got there I would record and post. Your ‘learn songs’ mantra has led to me achieving the same mediocrity level in days now :laughing: It is progress, but of a different nature and I thank you for it.
There’s plenty of food for thought for me in this thread…

Touché. See above :smiley:
You’re quite right, Kaspar- This is me to the core
In fact, I just wondered in my last share, whether 2023 would have me progress beyond my ‘simple strum’n’sing’. I really don’t know :wink:
Many of my AVOYPs could just as easily be posted in the social/chatting category.
That might be something to consider, keeping the AVOYP for songs that I pay a bit more attention to, like collaborations or at least DAW recordings.
I wouldn’t worry about the criticizing thing. Most folk here say they want it and you do tailor your responses to ability.

That is effectively what happens when you share though. The ‘usual suspects’ are the ones who most frequently comment- and that’s lovely. It’s always nice to see a new name join in, especially when you see them commenting on many others, as well as posting themselves.
It can be an intimidating experience, trying to ‘break in’ to what must seem like a pre-formed clique. We’ve gained a good number of regulars over the last year.
(No names, to prevent inflating egos and hurting feelings by leaving some out :laughing:)


So are we now saying that AOVYP is about charting progress and not just sharing music ?
Must have missed a meeting.


I think it will be a real shame if the AVOYP section gets devalued or underused in any way. I like to check out as many posts as I can both from people just starting out up to people way beyond my level. It is a great way to share music with others and I have been introduced to numerous songs across a variety of genres that would otherwise still be alien to me.
On a personal level it has helped my confidence a lot in getting some posts out there and receiving feedback from the community. I am guilty sometimes of not being able to provide much in the way of constructive feedback as my skill level is quite limited, especially as I play acoustic so don’t feel qualified to provide feedback on a piece played on electric for example.
Lets hope for a suitable resolution to this soon so we can continue to listen to each other’s music.
As an addition I would like to add that although I have never met any of you in person by watching your videos and posts I feel like I have got to know a few of you over the past few months. Long may that continue :sunglasses:


Haha, you Sir, bailed out of AVOYP long ago-
We now have to tune in to the open mic events to enjoy your dulcet tones, or take out a subscription to that weird ‘Madman presents’ channel you host as a sideline :wink:

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I think the argument is that when people view an AVoYP post they don’t necessarily go back to view any additional posts to that thread. So the poster may get lots of valuable feedback on the initial post but not on the subsequent posts on that thread.

That is something that I would like to do with the fingerstyle and blues studies that I’m doing this year. I do not think my learning log is the most appropriate place to post them as those best placed to give me constructive feedback may not necessarily follow my learning log. And when they are short study pieces I don’t think it’s appropriate to post as individual posts unless it was a performance piece at the end of the studies having taken on board all of the feedback and consolidated all of the techniques.

Likewise especially when they have been given a gentle poke by the community to get more involved and continue as they were.

Is it going to when the live streams kick off? Will there be pre-requisites like for the community OMs?

That is a very good point. As learner I never felt the need to post something half-baked. I want to get it to a level as best as I can before posting it to get feedback needed from more experienced players in order to take it to the next level.

One thing to remember is that those not in a position to give meaningful feedback do take the time to watch and learn from those above their play grade.


And I thought Kasper meant that some people better practice a little longer and make their song better instead of just posting many songs of the same level without making progress,…songs that would actually fit better in an LL ,. …getting feedback ,…by practicing and then after a few weeks (or months posting in AVOYP),…Feel free to say I’m completely wrong @Kasper


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I tend to agree, although there’s actually nothing inherently wrong with that IMO, as long as they are genuine learners with Justin, and at least minimally active in the community. Learning to perform is a valuable skill and doing so just for the sake of the applause isn’t necessarily a bad thing.

The issue for me is the sheer volume of videos. On the old forum I rarely had time to watch many of them, and now we are getting (what feels like) 10 times as many videos, it has become unmanageable.




And a double Haha to you sir. :wink:

Perhaps I was right to question the “Diaries” resurrection in the new gaff earlier last year.
Maybe I should have been dropping them in Just Chatting and not AOVYP.
New year, new broom and all that. :broom: :bucket: