The Holy Caged System.
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Hi Shane, im just saying i used 7 to learn modes rather than 5 although as you can see there are two duplicates in 1 and 7 and 3&4. so in any mode when plating there are only 5 patterns to play through. The 7 was about finding the starting point or home case for each mode in any key. A bit like the pentatonic right, most learn pattern 1 minor first and even when tou learn the other pentatonic positions it can take a while to learn to start on a Pattern other than one, so I called pattern 1 home base. The use of 7 major scale patterns as my graphic showed was to quickly identify home base in any key in any mode. I quickly learnt that once I knew where home base was it was apparent that all major modes started with their first mote (from an e string) on the note before the root note and all minor modes started on the root in terms of home base, the exception being Mixolydian starting on the root in pattern 4 (or pattern 3 to you). So it’s just a way of thinking really rather than application . in terms of parallel and series modes I see that as a bit of a waste of time really that complicates modes massively for no practical reason. For modes in parallel I just see them as modes, if i wanted to play any mode in say C home case would start on fret 7 or 8 (caveat for mixo as above) using the relevant pattern, so in my head for example Lydian pattern 4 or locrian pattern 7 etc.
Now I’m not saying I’m right and everyone else is wrong, I’m simply saying we are all doing the same thing but thinking about it slightly differently and this method simplified playing modes for me. Finally I never dreamt up the 7 patterns, my tutor presented them to me, when I first saw it I said why 7 patterns and two duplicates, so I’m quietly confident I’m not alone 
Hmm. I think you’re missing the entire point of modes. Modes are colours/flavours/ sounds of the Major scale.
And parallel vs series is not a complication. Its at the very core of the entire topic.
Seeing modes from this parallel perspective, which is the only real musical perspective, will allow you to eventually both hear exactly what these modes sound like, and how to utilise them. It will also illuminate and ingrain the distincive notes/ degrees that make each mode unique.
This parallel view is really what the modes are all about.
By seeing modes just in a series, ie same scale but starting on a different note, you will never truly hear the modes and start to get them ingrained in you ear. You are changing the tonic each time, so you have no reference no ‘grounding’. Modes are not Major scales that start on a different note. This is mainly just a convenient way of initially seeing them.
It is the modes variation, from the Major scale, that is whole point, along with the different sounding progressions that are derived from them.
A simple exercise should illuminate all the above.
( Do both 1 and 2 below just in Pattern1’. No need to go up the fretboard)
- Use C Major scale, and play the 7 modes that have C Major as their parent scale. Ie.
C Ionian - CDEFGAB
D Dorian - DEFGABC
E Phrygian - EFGABCD
F Lydian - FGABCDE
G Mixolydian - GABCDEF
A Aeolian - ABCDEFG
B Locrian - BCDEFGA
- Now play the 7 modes of C Major
C Ionian - C D E F G A B
C Dorian - C D E♭ F G A B♭ C
C Phrygian - C D♭ E♭ F G A♭ B♭ C
C Lydian- C D E F♯ G A B C
C Mixolydian - C D E F G A Bb
C Aeolian - C D E♭ F G Ab B♭
C Locrian - C D♭ E♭ F G♭ A♭B♭.
I hope you can hear the difference here; and see all the modal information contained in (2) that does not exist in (1).
(1) is simply walking up the C Major scale, starting on a different note each time. Its not really modes.
(2) is the sound ( and notes/ intervals) of the 7 modes of C Major.
So rather than being a waste of time, it is the exact thing you need to learn, hear, and apply.
You are of free to persue it however you wish, but I’d urge you to seriously consider the above.
Cheers, Shane
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Well it’s ok to agree to disagree @sclay
Practically you never play modes in parallel one after the other unless you want to understand how to play nodes in parrellel but musically its irrelevant, you play them over a modal chord progression or backing track and need to understand the intervals and the modal colour notes. If I was to ask you to play Lydian over a Lydian backing track or any other mode for that matter why would you think in relative or parallel modes, it makes no sense, only makes sense in theory or on paper. You can make your option 1 or 2 sound modal if you understand the intervals are also changing in option one and you understand those intervals and correct colour notes. From my perspective I think your too deep in the theory drivel if you believe relative mores dont sound modal, which leads me to think its you who is missing the point of modes, it’s simply a different sound based on differing intervals and unique colour notes of each.
Before you delve deeper into who understands modes correctly and who doesn’t, and if anyone is interested in reading a comprehensive introduction to the topic, check this out:
Also, I’m one of the last people to complain about too much music theory, but this is a PMT Grade 4 lesson and modes are introduced only in PMT Grade 7. The last few posts may be better placed in those lessons’ threads.
@Richard_close2u I believe some of the posts related to modes and the CAGED system could be moved to a separate thread for the sake of clarity and ease of reference.
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Relative modes sound very different and unique to me.
Have a listen and see if you still think they all sound like the major scale @sclay
@Richard_close2u @DavidP can you please move starting @ post 75 to its own thread. All of this has nothing to do with this lesson specific thead.
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Nonsense. I give up. You learn them how you see fit.
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5 Caged patterns.
7 modes.
35 patterns. 
Simples.
5 CAGED patterns
7 Modes
Still 5 paterns. Just repeated 7 times from a diferent note.
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Ive already learnt them, good luck in your modal endeavours.
What you don’t seem to understand is all 7 modes can be played in each pattern.
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No i understand that @stitch, i was trying to explain my thinking when i learnt them thats all as i noted just like pentatonics my starting point was pattern 1 was my home base or starting point at first even though i new all the patterns until i could see where other patterns started, same with modes always start at home base so in my numbers lydian pattern 4 etc until i could see all the starting points in the other patterns.
It definitely exists in 1 provided that the first note becomes the tonic note. Which is the point.
Here is your 1 list with the intervals added.
C Ionian - CDEFGAB 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D Dorian - DEFGABC 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
E Phrygian - EFGABCD 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
F Lydian - FGABCDE 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
G Mixolydian - GABCDEF 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
A Aeolian - ABCDEFG 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
B Locrian - BCDEFGA 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7
compared to your 2 list
C Ionian - C D E F G A B 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
C Dorian - C D E♭ F G A B♭ C 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
C Phrygian - C D♭ E♭ F G A♭ B♭ C 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
C Lydian- C D E F♯ G A B C 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7
C Mixolydian - C D E F G A Bb 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
C Aeolian - C D E♭ F G Ab B♭ 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
C Locrian - C D♭ E♭ F G♭ A♭B♭. 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7
All the information is there.
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The tonic in 1 is not consistent, so the comparitive information is pretty much useless. You are comparing relative modes.
Spot on @Matt125. Generally speaking the majority of the time you play a mode outside of practising them you would play over a drone or a modal chord backing track progression so a solo would be one mode over one key, occasonlly two and therefore if you can’t play and hear any Mode in isolation then your doing it wrong and you’ve still got work to do to learn modes. Each mode has at least one different interval how can they possibly sound alike if you play different intervals in each mode, the key is the focus on the tonal centre and the respective colour notes or differing intervals in each mode.
I may have read this wrong so apologies in advance but are we saying that all 7 modes can be played using the same pattern, but by starting the pattern in a different point for each different mode?
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Effectively yes. Dorian start on the 2 degree, Locrian start on the 7th. That is the most basic concept of modes.
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