Sharing of the Community OM audience link

[brianlarsen]

@Richard_close2u

I need to post this here: Community Open Mics – Eligibility & Access

Once again, a big thank you to everyone involved in helping to organise all the Open Mic events, (whether Community-led or Justin’s Streamyards)

It’s good to see the formation of an official Open Mic Committee, consisting of the 3 mods and a handful of Community members who have been doing the heavy lifting to date. Thank you, guys

It remains important for the rest of us to maintain an active role in supporting the events, offering assistance, as well as contributing suggestions for improvements.

“Open Mics are growing in popularity and are becoming an essential core feature of Community involvement for many of our members now. They have been and will continue to be unlisted events using a Zoom link that is not shared in a public domain - held within a Community-only safe space.” (Richard)

There have been a number of discussions in the past as to whether it’s necessary to have the link unlisted in the Community. I gather it was to prevent ‘outsiders’ from crashing the party and being disruptive/trolling etc.

Bearing in mind that any of (nearly ¼ million) Community members can request a link without any ‘vetting’, I remained sceptical of this requirement and felt more members might just ‘drop in’ if they didn’t have to request a link, which feels more like a commitment.

Yesterday’s Livestream demonstrated that, not only making the link publicly available, but advertising it on multiple Justin-platforms, resulted in about 10 times the ‘usual’ audience with only
“a little moderation of comments but nothing heavy handed or censorial. A few negative remarks were allowed through… Overall, the vast majority were encouraging and in good spirit.” (Richard)

Given that the OMs are only advertised here in the Community, I still believe we are trying to protect ourselves from a problem that probably doesn’t exist. Time for a rethink?
I hope this is read in the positive way I intend and not seen as negative criticism. I’m quite looking forward to wracking my brains and looking for the next song to share with this great bunch of fellow musicians and friends.
#Free the Nipple Link

Ps Good luck to all the performers at the next one. I’m looking forward to catching it on YT

[elevatortrim]

I’d be in favour of opening it up because the goal of these is to prepare us to the ‘real world’. Receiving negative comments is not something necessarily bad, developing a thick skin is a necessary evil for any kind of public activity.

Having said that, there are lots of comments here indicating a public event would be very intimidating for some first timers.

In addition to opening it up, I’d suggest doing closed events once in a while as a safe space for new comers to shake off their nerves for the first time.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@elevatortrim

because the goal of these is to prepare us to the ‘real world’

That is just one element. See text from Background & History

They are seen by many as a next step from sharing recordings in the Community Recordings section. They are intended to give a virtual taste of playing live to a real audience. The fact that they are open to community members only means performers are in a safe environment, playing in front of virtual friends and people they will likely have met in Community chat. The audiences are supportive and friendly and there is no judgement. So, it’s fun. In fact its great fun. It’s a real buzz!

A taste not preparation.

That is how they differ to the Livestream which “plays” to the wide world. Two separate beast with differing objectives.

@Richard_close2u @DavidP Can we find a different home for these last few posts, as I can see it muddying the CFI unnecessarily. Thx.

[DavidP]

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

@Richard_close2u @DavidP Can we find a different home for these last few posts, as I can see it muddying the CFI unnecessarily. Thx.

I’ve moved it, Toby

[Rossco01]

Personally I think the way it works today works… if people want to watch it they request to be in the audience… never seen a post from anyone that said they couldn’t join OR that the current approach is a blocker to join.

The above said I suspect if we simply posted the link we would possibly get an uptick on audience members but that comes potentially with other issues particularly as on zoom we encourage audience participation (so anyone can post audio/video/chat). So possibly more for OM mods to manage and to be observant of.

I whole heartedly agree with Toby the aim was to create a “positive” “safe” space for live performance ( the next step from AVOYP) . We could all be critical of performances but the aim is to focus on the positives…. Most people can spot where improvement is required. That’s a message/ethos we shouldn’t lose.

What I would definitely be against is posting the audience link more broadly than within the community. The OM works BECAUSE it’s a small gathering. The pre/post chat are a nice bookend to the performances and because the performer list is growing gradually then people get to know each other. I really couldn’t imagine it working if we got
Lots and lots of people (even just in the audience).

[roger_holland]

I think that more is less in this case… just quickly yelling “Toby Audience” works perfect … that way you know a bit who is watching and that gives you peace of mind as a performer(I don`t know) but also as an audience (I know)… after all, you are watching people in the living room (including the audience there rooms)…
But I support whatever the organizers choose

Edit: Lets do a vote I’ve known how to do that for an hour

[math07]

@TheMadman_tobyjenner

They are seen by many as a next step from sharing recordings in the Community Recordings section. They are intended to give a virtual taste of playing live to a real audience. The fact that they are open to community members only means performers are in a safe environment, playing in front of virtual friends and people they will likely have met in Community chat. The audiences are supportive and friendly and there is no judgement. So, it’s fun. In fact its great fun. It’s a real buzz!

As a rookie to playing in public, I like Toby’s description of a positive safe space with a small audience like it is now.

I can also understand the point of view that some veteran players may want to reach a broader audience just like the Livestream.

I guess that it’s normal that rookie and veteran have different goals. It’s hard to 100% please both group, but I guess that the fact that there are 2 kind of events (Open Mic and Livestream) can help.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@roger_holland

Edit: Lets do a vote I’ve known how to do that for an hour

Lets not please.

[roger_holland]

Sorry , was really a joke … the organizer is the boss here as far as I’m concerned , and a good discussion is nice
Greetings

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@brianlarsen Brian have you seen the amended Performer Criteria Richard published earlier ? This may explain why audience requests and recorded attendance remain key going forward. This could not happen (easily) if the link was freely available. Let alone all the other reasons that we have debated too many times before.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@math07

but I guess that the fact that there are 2 kind of events (Open Mic and Livestream)

You hit the nail on the head Matt. Precisely that reason. But I would add that some sign up for the Livestream as they see it a way of showing support for Justin and all he does.

[nzmetal]

As someone who has seen explicit video and content maliciously shared into zoom meetings to unwitting attendees along with experiencing coordinated “Zoom bomber” attacks that completely destroy sessions , I am opposed to open Zoom meeting links being advertised anywhere public.

In saying that, there are ways to manage this safely if the correct measures are used.

However, I’m not in favour of changing the current OM set up which I think works great and as Toby and others have mentioned above is structured that way for good reasons.

Instead, maybe those interested in this next step could instead use the mini-gig format but run it in a hybrid fashion whereby the “in-person” audience attends on zoom (with mics and cameras on) via the same process as used for the OMs but then we also live stream it onto YouTube (using Zoom’s live stream option) so that can be shared publicly to a wider audience.

This would maintain the integrity of the OMs but give the community a separate platform (outside Justin’s live streams) for performing to a larger audience if they so wish. Therefore you get the advantage of a friendly “in-person” audience giving you cheers and claps along with more diverse(?) responses from the public YouTube audience. Best of both worlds?

I would be happy to tech support this option if anyone or any group wished to try it (assuming it was approved by the moderators).

[jkahn]

@brianlarsen

Bearing in mind that any of (nearly ¼ million) Community members can request a link without any ‘vetting’, I remained sceptical of this requirement and felt more members might just ‘drop in’ if they didn’t have to request a link, which feels more like a commitment.

Anyone in the community is welcome to come to one of the OMs as audience, the Zoom link being send privately via DM isn’t going to change though - for precisely the reasons @nzmetal mentioned - disruptors, trolls, porn, naked people, all sorts.

For those that aren’t as tech-in-tune, there are bots that crawl the internet looking for public zoom meeting links. It would be a disaster.

However, the streaming to YouTube a’la the livestream is an option and something we are planning on trialling soon, there is just some rearranging of youtube channels going on first. It’s unclear if it’s going to be something we do ongoing as that could move away from the private-group-safe-space mentality to more of a public performance mentality.

We want to encourage participation going forward. It’s super easy to register for the audience, there’s not really much easier than saying “can I be in the audience please”.

[jkahn]

@nzmetal

I would be happy to tech support this option if anyone or any group wished to try it (assuming it was approved by the moderators).

We’re OK with the tech side of this one Jeff . But the OM steering group all do know you’re a total zoom pro and that you’re willing to help with stuff!

[nzmetal]

Thanks buddy, you guys are doing great work!

@jkahn

We’re OK with the tech side of this one Jeff

wouldn’t want to suggest something without offering to help of course though!

[brianlarsen]

@nzmetal

As someone who has seen explicit video and content

… Like Justin’s Livestream on Saturday night?

Naw, seriously, I think some folks are getting the wrong impression of where I’m coming from.
I have no interest in wanting to increase viewing numbers either live or after the event. In fact, the opposite is the case.

For me the Community open mics have always been about a bunch of guitar enthusiasts getting together on an evening, chewing the fat and sharing what they’re up to. The audience aspect of it (live or recorded) is primarily for inclusiveness, to show that it’s no big deal, and that anyone of any standard is welcome. If people want to watch and comment, great; if not, they’re no less enjoyable.

Of course the current system works (and well too)
I’m just not a fan of unnecessary rules/form filling/bureaucracy. (Maybe I’ve been living in the Republic of Merseyside too long )
When I brought this up before, the main reason for not sharing the link was fear of outside disruptors/trolls. I’m confident this would not be a problem in this community.
If the main reason is malicious bots now, well that’s a different kettle of fish, which I will leave to the techhies to advise on.

Anyway, the overall consensus appears to be carry on rocking all over the world with the Status Quo, with which I am more than happy. Personally, I think simultaneous YT livestream broadcast would be undesirable, as it creates an extra layer of admin and turns it more into an exhibition/showcase rather than friendly get-together.

I’m happy for this thread to be closed and drift into obscurity unless anyone else has useful contributions.

It’s Monday morning and I have a monarchy to topple…

[elevatortrim]

I also did not think of the troll/bot aspect, just thought public would only be able to watch or comment, not join to audio or video. Then I agree it does not work.

[nzmetal]

@brianlarsen

… Like Justin’s Livestream on Saturday night?

@brianlarsen

I’m happy for this thread to be closed and drift into obscurity unless anyone else has useful contributions.

(Just about fell over laughing so had to respond to above! Will now go sush… )

[DavidP]

I understood your point Brian ie post the link in the CFI directly rather than via DMs.

If it opens us up to the risk of the link being picked up from the Community via a BOT and that risk has a significant liklihood then not worth making a change.

From a streaming perspective, if we did that then it would be to a JG Community channel (work in progress on setting that up, which will be where all the OM videos will be posted) not Justin’s channel. But I don’t immediately see a need for that (once we have trialled it) or significant benefit. One benefit would be that there’d be no video post-processing. OTOH the post processing allows us to edit out bits where required.

[TheMadman_tobyjenner]

@brianlarsen

Naw, seriously, I think some folks are getting the wrong impression of where I’m coming from.
I have no interest in wanting to increase viewing numbers either live or after the event. In fact, the opposite is the case.

I think with this coming on top of the Livestream folks may have got carried away, with your well documented reasoning for a visible link. 2 + 2 = thinking:

I know you are just trying to make life easier for everyone, Performers, Audience and Organisers and appreciate that motive. But as has been said there some dodgy going on out in t’interweb these days and we still need to protect Justin’s brand reputation, after all we are still part of the JS planet. And we still get the occasional troll sign up and muddy the waters. Easy for them to hijack an openly visible link for nefarious activates. Fortunately our mods are quick to spot and isolate/remove these unwelcome visitors, especially the type.

On your closing statement, give me a bell if you need a hand Senor Quixote, I’ll grab my lance.