Understanding & learning modes in their own right, as part of the major scale system and using CAGED shapes

Ive already learnt them, good luck in your modal endeavours.

What you donā€™t seem to understand is all 7 modes can be played in each pattern.

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No i understand that @stitch, i was trying to explain my thinking when i learnt them thats all as i noted just like pentatonics my starting point was pattern 1 was my home base or starting point at first even though i new all the patterns until i could see where other patterns started, same with modes always start at home base so in my numbers lydian pattern 4 etc until i could see all the starting points in the other patterns.

It definitely exists in 1 provided that the first note becomes the tonic note. Which is the point.
Here is your 1 list with the intervals added.

C Ionian - CDEFGAB 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
D Dorian - DEFGABC 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
E Phrygian - EFGABCD 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
F Lydian - FGABCDE 1 2 3 #4 5 6 7
G Mixolydian - GABCDEF 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
A Aeolian - ABCDEFG 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
B Locrian - BCDEFGA 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

compared to your 2 list
C Ionian - C D E F G A B 1 2 3 4 5 6 7
C Dorian - C D Eā™­ F G A Bā™­ C 1 2 b3 4 5 6 b7
C Phrygian - C Dā™­ Eā™­ F G Aā™­ Bā™­ C 1 b2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
C Lydian- C D E Fā™Æ G A B C 1 2 3 #4 5 6 b7
C Mixolydian - C D E F G A Bb 1 2 3 4 5 6 b7
C Aeolian - C D Eā™­ F G Ab Bā™­ 1 2 b3 4 5 b6 b7
C Locrian - C Dā™­ Eā™­ F Gā™­ Aā™­Bā™­. 1 b2 b3 4 b5 b6 b7

All the information is there.

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The tonic in 1 is not consistent, so the comparitive information is pretty much useless. You are comparing relative modes.

Spot on @Matt125. Generally speaking the majority of the time you play a mode outside of practising them you would play over a drone or a modal chord backing track progression so a solo would be one mode over one key, occasonlly two and therefore if you canā€™t play and hear any Mode in isolation then your doing it wrong and youā€™ve still got work to do to learn modes. Each mode has at least one different interval how can they possibly sound alike if you play different intervals in each mode, the key is the focus on the tonal centre and the respective colour notes or differing intervals in each mode.

I may have read this wrong so apologies in advance but are we saying that all 7 modes can be played using the same pattern, but by starting the pattern in a different point for each different mode?

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Effectively yes. Dorian start on the 2 degree, Locrian start on the 7th. That is the most basic concept of modes.

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Yes,
These are called relative modes, and will give you part of the picture.

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However if you are new to Modes, start here from @Richard_close2u

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Thanks, I need to look into and visualise that

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I would also add, despite the discussion here.

5 patterns
7 modes

simples.

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See my follow up link, its all contained in Richardā€™s Mode series. And comprehensively so !

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Cheers for the replies!

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De nada !

Richardā€™s explanation is really comprehensive and also provides opportunities to not only hear the texture and colour of each mode but also to put into practice using a very selective area of the fretboard. As an outlier Iā€™d say keep an open mind with Locrian, it really is worth exploring (isnā€™t it @Richard_close2u :wink: ). Plus this thread contains some views that although may work and are ā€œnot wrongā€ go against convention.

:sunglasses:

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I think 7 patterns but only play 5 of them in any mode :joy:

As I said

This should help.
Here is the E shaped CAGED pattern. Clearly you can use it to play a Major scale starting on the 6th string.
image
Here is a blank version
image
You are free to use any of the dots as a Tonic note.
The animation below shows what happens as you select a different tonic note. You can play all of the modes with this single pattern It works for all the other CAGED shapes as well. Itā€™s like a cipher for the diatonic scales/modes.
modes-2

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spot on again @Matt125 :+1:

I struggle to understand why folk canā€™t hear the difference in relative modes. In its simplest form c major pentatonic notes and A minor pentatonic notes are relative and both have different tonics but the same five notes. Extending that by adding two further identical notes we have the same 7 identical notes in C major scale and A natural minor scale or Ionian and Aeolian. Two relative modes that sound very different using exactly the same notes. Tweak the formulas as required to change the intervals and mood for the other 5 modes, simples.

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That is very helpful, thanks vey much Matt